EP 56: The Pandemic Impact on Real Estate and Business Valuations with Sam Smith

sam smith  0:23  
Hi, Ed. Glad to be here. I'm a longtime listener first time as an entrepreneur and business owner, I get great value from your podcasts. I'm kind of excited and honored to be on it. 

Ed Mysogland  2:32  
 Oh, man, you've been on the shortlist. I'm glad we were able to carve out some time to get you here before you came on. I did you know just a few opening comments about your background. So can you tell us a little bit more about you and resource and how you're serving business owners? Sure. Well, I'm very fortunate to have a 40 year career doing something that I truly love. I like to say it was great planning, but it was a summer internship in September of 81 that turned into a 40 year career. We recently played at my company a game called Cahoots and which is great for team building. And they asked me about my dream job and I said chairman of resource commercial real estate, central enhance largest locally owned and independent firm. And I like being David and competing with clients in our industry. I enjoy helping clients get what they need. And I truly enjoy helping employees grow and excel which are two of our core values. I am and we are essentially management consultants for our clients much like you, we really try to understand the client's core business drivers and challenges and then use real estate to help and they will enhance accelerate their business. Sometimes that means creating better access to the right labor pool or proximity to customers. For others it might be more efficient space to enhance employee productivity. The key question today is how much space do they really need? And where another question is cost, which is becoming more of an issue today because of the recession. A greater need today also is these purchase flexibility, as this is a very dynamic business environment. And COVID makes these decisions even more critical to the overall success of the enterprise. So this is the only job you've ever had. The only thing you've ever done. Well no I started when I was a young delivering paper, you know shipper routes and mowing lawns and you know shoveling snow and raking leaves and surfing in a garden with the garden just sounds pretty simple, but I had to plow the field.

sam smith  0:00  
We're fielding a lot of calls from business owners that own real estate and they're wanting to know, what do we do here? What's the effect of this pandemic on our real estate? You know, are we going to be able to sell it at fair market value? What is the future look like? What is the buyer have to look like in order to buy it in an environment like this? So anyway, I contacted one of

Ed Mysogland  4:37  
We had tomato plants that were taller than the house. We needed two by fours. This is not Paul Bunyan. I've had a lot of jobs over the years as a kid. But my first real job was working at what was then Coldwell Banker Commercial now CBRE,

sam smith  4:53  
nice, well, I don't know if I ever told you this job that I'm in. That's the only one I've ever had to So I'm with you, you couldn't find

Ed Mysogland  5:02  
work easier. Hmm?

Right, so, so you've got to a like, like me, you've got a slew of initials after your after your last name. What what do all of those initials mean?

Well, I'm a CCIE. I am an SI por NSLC, er and MCR dot w. And they're all actually very foundational to my success. And I'll tell you what each one briefly means. CCI M is really the MBA of commercial real estate from the financial side. Okay, it's a training program that's recognized as kind of the industry leader for that. Si. Anwar is the industry leader for, I would say, doing deals for office and industrial brokers. And you have to have a certain level of experience to achieve both of those. The SLC R and MC r dot w are designations in a certificate through the Cornette global, which is a corporate real estate organization, the largest in the industry. And those are really, what they all mean is that I'm a student of the industry, I believe, in lifelong learning, and it's part of our company DNA. To be the market leader helps to be the thought leader to do that one must train extensively. It's just like athletes, it takes 10,000 hours to become a master at anything. And most overnight successes, as you know, have years of experience and training behind them. My goal is that all of our advisors have at least one industry designation, and ideally, two or more. And that's why I recently hired David David vehicle to head up our training and coaching. He's a ccm instructor and a massive coach, which are to have that, again, the industry leaders in those fields, and we invest very heavily in training for our people so they can better serve clients. I'm with

you. And I just think like your industry and ours, I mean, it's evolving in a hurry and being out front, you know, and it has its pluses and minuses. But I think it's it's always better to be out front and making mistakes and getting better than than necessarily waiting to see who's going to do what, and then decide accordingly. And I've been I've been really fortunate that my partners have just kind of let me tinker around and just explore different different things in our practice and, and knowing you the way the way I do you know, you're in that same camp? Yes. Very much. So. Yeah. So let's, let's move over to the pandemic. I mean, I work. And that's what I was saying at the very beginning, on your introduction. I mean, we're getting all kinds of calls on with business owners on this, this pandemic in the real estate, and what am I supposed to do? So I guess the first thing is, the people that have the capital, how are they approaching real estate deals during this time? Well, we've got

different folks that touch real estate, and they all have different ways. They're reacting, but generally they're working together. So tenants who have had that disruption to their business have challenges and they've gotten the landlords and said, Hey, can I get some rent relief or maybe a rent deferral, and most landlords, many landlords are cooperating in that endeavor. At the same time, they're running immediately to their bank or lender and saying, Hey, we've got this COVID issue, it's affected some of our tenants, I need a forbearance or some relief on payments for a little while, can I get a you know, three months or six months deferral of the mortgage payments? And then the bankers go to the Fed and say, Hey, do you want to buy these loans that may or may not be perfect, and the Feds been very aggressive about that. So it's, it's one big happy family right now. But that's during the time where we have PPP and a lot of money flowing. The challenge will be when the money stops. So right now lenders are very careful about who they're lending to. And I've been watching many industry webinars and reading white papers and trying to read the tea leaves. And most lenders, it seems, are working with borrowers for, you know, deferrals and that kind of thing. And they tend to be concentrated in affected industries like retail, hotel assisted living, and some office investor, on the other hand has been largely on impacted and possibly seeing growth. Because of it. The move to e commerce would be an example or COVID related, you know, equipment needing storage would be an example. apartments have been very solid to good through this entire time. offense has been impacted, but the real impact will be when tenants decide whether they're going to renew or not, and at what size that might be in three to five years. With layoffs, downsizing consolidations, business failures, and work remote strategies. They will all have a big impact on the future of Office demand and their for vacancies, rents and values. So right now, there are a lot of lenders that are hitting pause, and looking at their portfolios to try to determine where they might have problems. And the challenge is the money still flowing. So they don't really know until the money stops. And when that happens, I think you're gonna see a lot of challenges for for lenders. Okay,

so what comes next when there's challenges for lenders? I mean, is that bailout? Is that buying bank portfolios? What what does that mean?

Oh, yeah, so the next step is, there'll be my prediction will be a federal bailout. But in the short term, the Fed is buying a lot of loans from banks. So they're essentially they're even buying corporate bonds they've announced. So essentially, the Fed is trying to ease the credit situation by buying up all the debt, some of which I'm pretty certain it's going to be bad debt. And so the government at some point is going to pay the piper. But right now, they are helping banks, keep the capital flowing. But even with the Fed buying their notes, they're not necessarily lending because again, some of them put it on hold and said, We're gonna wait and see. It's like catching a falling knife. Do you want to make loans now when the values of properties might fall by 20%? In 12 months? Depends on the industry.

Yeah. Well, I look at I look at a professional service firm, like the like our brokerage and and I look at COVID forced us to move virtual in a hurry. And like I was telling you, we haven't missed out, we haven't missed at all, we're to be honest with you. And so I'm trying to figure out alright, what what does 2021 22 look like if the majority of our folks are at least 60% of their practice is now virtual, and they're not missing a beat? So what is what is the landlord do in situations like that? Or what do you first see things? How does that shake out?

Yes. Okay. So first, I will tell you that I think a lot of tenants without the all the things the Fed is doing, and Congress did in terms of stimulus, there'll be a lot of dead companies right? Now my opinion, amen to that. And the bailout was for you know, basically, April, May, June, and then you can stretch it, but most people like, you know, my company, we've spent the money, most of it, so it's nice to stretch it out. But most of it's already been spent. But there are some state and city restrictions against evictions and utility shut off. So when tenants can't pay their rent, landlords can't necessarily budem in California, they wanted to ban evictions, meaning every tenant would never have to pay rent. And that's wonderful if you're a tenant. problematic for the landlord. And so the government essentially would make you partners in the stimulus package. And luckily, that failed to become law. But there are many programs like that, that, you know, are being proposed. And right now there are city and state regulations that say you can't evict so there are many programs, federal, state city county to assist target businesses and individuals, you've obviously shared some of those on your program. And that being said, if eviction were legal matters, most landlords are many of them are working with their tenants. And banks are working with their borrowers. And again, the Feds working with banks to make this whole thing continue to grow. So you're right, maybe not all the tenants have, or your clients have hit the skids. But I would say what I'm saying 25 or 30% of restaurants, retail hotel, and then you know, travel industry. So there are a lot of industries that are going to be materially affected. And then you know, use Office as an example if you're doing work by remote is there a lot of large corporate downsizings I think you'll see you know, five or 10% less demand and office may be 20%, but a significant profit office demand, which will at some point it hits, you know, landlords rent rolls vacancies, the disruption if tenants go bad, will eventually flow through to the cash flow, which will throw to flow through at some point the lender switch will create REO opportunities at some point, but right now it's sunny days are here again, I did pull up a little information. There's a an a read all read index and they track rent being paid, collected rent, and for industrial APR is 99.7%. And it has slipped to June to 97.8%. Apartments. Similarly, we're actually worse than April at just under 90%. Now it's at nine and a half percent in June. office collections were 94.3 up to 95.9. Healthcare 87.3 but at 95% today, but if you look at and those are like medical office buildings, but retail was the 72% of the 79. And shopping centers, which would be more the larger retail 45.9% Going up to 60 and a half percent today. So and then you've seen all the bankruptcy, finance and retail, the retail world. So this is all going to flow through, you know, hospitals have suffered tremendously, because of COVID, they've essentially shut down most of the hospital except for the COVID. Ward. So all the revenue streams that they would have have from surgery and, and other things, they've lost that so these things will all flow through the economy, it affects GDP and affects consumer spending, you know, what this situation where people see a recession, they save money, so that, you know, they're prepared for a rainy day kind of situation. But that's really bad for retailers, and the general economy and GDP because people aren't spending, they're saving, which is good. But the negative is then the retailers and businesses that rely upon those sales are slowly dying. And in addition, governments that rely upon the sales taxes and income taxes are also struggling tremendously.

sam smith  16:08  
Yeah. When in fact, we had a question on the podcast the other day that they asked about, is it a good time to start buying up retail businesses that, you know, are floundering because of just the pandemic? And my position was, you know, what, if you're fighting that Amazon gorilla, and if you don't have a novel product, I'm not certain you want to be playing in, in retail, that's a that's a tough road to plow and, you know, whatever you're looking at, you're at the table, you're saying, I mean, you know, they're only collecting 80%. And I gotta believe that they're, I mean, the margins are just continue to erode the profit margins that is just continue to erode in just about every retail sector, isn't it?

Ed Mysogland  16:56  
That's correct. And so I think what you're going to see is winners and losers. So there'll be some new concepts that will fill in some of the retail like a mall is going to have a bigger entertainment component will be rest. It's just the world's going to be different and retail and will be a lot of you know, creative reuse of retail. Could be office could be some other you know, there was just announced a recent co working deal, and I'm all here locally, and I didn't see that. Yeah, I think the you're gonna see a lot of creative use of a larger mall space. You know, Lafayette Square is, you know, targeted to be knocked down and become an industrial park. So the world is changing data commerce is growing, traditional retail is shrinking. So you better have a good concept. Mike, my concern with the whole thing when you look at across not just retail but the other sectors is what's going to happen in November, December, January, when the relief runs out. What will collections look like for landlords? You know, I believe that PPP and other stimulus programs are temporary BandAids, potentially masking a bigger issue that could manifest after the stimulus stops. The biggest issue I see is how to get 30 or 40 million people back to work. And those new jobs may be a new industries requiring new skills and training. My forecast is probably a little less rosy than what most would say, I prefer to say that we're realistic. But, you know, I see a U shaped recovery not a fee, right? Longer than, you know, three to six years, I see more government intervention and banking and lending and maybe a jobs program or two. And for real estate, that means a lot more REO property and potential discounted distressed investment opportunities for buyers. So there's always a silver lining, unfortunately, because of the distress of others.

Now what What is re REO stands for real estate owned,

where properties go back, say a bank or lender I got a typically want to dispose of in and take their lumps and write it down and, and move on?

Well, again, everything has its cycle. But I'm with you. I mean, I think that there and that this is one of the things that we've been talking about in our practices, you know, if I'm 70 to 73, you know, I decided, you know, to keep to keep going I didn't want to retire didn't have anything else to do. I love my business and I'm physically capable, mentally capable, and you know, stock markets, great businesses great. Why in the heck would I stop doing this? I think this whole this whole pandemic and then the subsequent recession that I believe we've got coming, I think that's going to take the wind out of the sails of a lot of business owners and they I think they will see it we'll see a lot of businesses come up for sale and that's a good thing because I I believe that when there's a situation like that there are a lot of employees that have been displaced and it's a great time to buy companies and that's what we're seeing in it and to be honest with you what we're in dissipating that we'll see a lot of that, because, you know, there's just if you look after wars and recessions, it's a great time to be buying companies. And with any luck, you know, and this segues into my next question, if the access to capital improves through the SBA and the other channels, you know, this is going to this will be a real good time for buyers to, to either get into business for themselves or expand their business. And that leads me to my next question. So interest rates are expected increase over the next five years. So tell me what what does that do to buyers, sellers and investors that you guys represent?

Well, advice would be refinanced now by now because the money's cheap. Right now, banks and lenders are borrowing massive amounts of money from the Fed at 0%. And loaning it out for a handsome profit. But it's still historically low rates. They have minimum rates that they require. They're not alone and out at 0%. They have a solid profit. I wish they were long term and short term interest rates will increase and we'll have inflationary pressures when this is all over the fence printing money at historic rates, eventually, we'll have to pay the piper Piper. That will mean higher taxes, pay down the debt. When the Fed stops printing money like a drunken sailor credit will become tight or tighter, I should say maybe not tight, but it will impact commercial real estate, cash will be keen those with clean balance sheets and lots of cash will be able to make Hey, I think that probably applies to your business drives. Well, it does give you a position to buy businesses, what an opportunity, opportunistic time.

sam smith  21:37  
Well, yeah, I mean, rumor has that. Like for us, the SBA is talking about increasing their cap from 5 million to 10 million. And you started looking at that. I mean, that's a that's a business, that's probably doing 20 $25 million. I mean, that's a Those are big numbers. So yeah, right. So we're looking forward to that. Hopefully, that'll get passed. But, but again, it like you, I mean, this is all about risk. And we're trying to, it takes time to come out of this, to see what the ramifications were, especially with, if you've been negatively impacted by COVID, you may be able to recoup, but it's gonna take time to do that. And buyers just don't, you know, there, if you want to sell, you know, we got to come up with some sort of risk mitigation for the buyer in order to facilitate that sale. And that's the tough part. So hopefully, the, the SBA and the Nagel and the the folks that that are in that space, they're recognizing that, you know, what we've got to do on our end to transfer that, that business and that real estate to the next buyer. So as a landlord, you know, what are tenants and end users in the future likely to value most if I own a chunk of real estate and, and there's been folks that just did not, you know, it did not work out, for whatever reason, and I've got some space to fill in, I want to attract some good tenants, what am I what are they looking for?

Ed Mysogland  23:11  
Well, with COVID, safety's first, security, amenities, image efficiency, competitive costs, because of the recession, most tenants want good access to highways and in amenities, and then and homes. And then flexibility is a really critical thing that I think of growing importance. Because of this recession. You know, it's a dynamic business environment, and tenants want a little more flexibility to make changes to their space, and maybe size of space. So maybe an option to cancel or an option or downsize, or a short term lease things that can give them flexibility for their business. Those needs may change over

time, based on that list. I mean, isn't that what is new? Isn't this isn't this kind of like the standard list that in good times, and bad? Or is there something new that's on here?

Yeah, so here are the nuances. So safety is more critical today than before, obviously, in the cost because of recession is more critical in a growing market and kind of had a booming economy for you know, really 11 year recovery or 12 years, whatever it was. Now, people are very focused on cost. Cost is critical. If you don't manage your costs, you might be out of business. So sharing out and driver in the backseat. Now they're not talking about growth. I'm talking about cutting back. So flexibility again, landlords who put in tenant improvements and spend big money to build out spaces that are cost a lot more because cost of construction would like a long term lease tenants would like to have at least like a hotel, or they could get out every other night. So it's that battle, but I think landlords In tenants that tenants need more flexibility today because the world is changing. I mean, if you track, you know, COVID, and what's happening, and then recession and you know, it changes daily. And so being able to change is, I think it'd be a lot more critical going forward. And your amenities will be different, you know, that we have, I'm in an office park where they have nice amenities, but they've all been closed for forever. A restaurant won't reopen yet, but they're going to put food trucks out there, and the gym is going to be at 50%. And then the conference rooms, I don't even know if they're available. But you know, so the what people want what change what I don't think they want, as you know, New York City power, where your 100 stories up, and you've kind of waited in Alabama for two hours, you know, an elevator lined up two at a time or whatever. So, you know, I think it's going to change where people put office space and not just office but can locate real estate. And I think you'll see that good for middle America, and maybe a little more distributed workforce. You know, when you found out you could work anywhere, and you're sitting in San Francisco, living in a shoebox paying three times four times what it costs to live in Indianapolis, could you do your same job in Indianapolis? We may not have all the amenities that San Francisco has, but you can live like a king for the same amount of money they're being paid in San Francisco. Right?

Yeah, I mean, it I will tell you, it is the big equalizer in that respect that you know what you can, regardless of the job that you hold, I mean, the the world just got real small, and we're all we're all seeing it. And that's to me that I mean, that's exciting. I mean, it's crappy is this, this whole COVID. And thing is, it's been it's been pretty fascinating to see some of the transformations not only from, from employees, they're like you were referencing the the person in San Francisco. And we'll talk about in a minute about pivoting. Like I said, I have found it totally fascinating. So one of the questions I had was, what's the biggest threat to your practice in this post crisis environment? Oh, what are you guys doing?

Right, good question. The biggest threat to entrepreneurial firms like ours, maybe like yours, is getting squeezed by recessionary pressures on one end. And then in our industry, we have mammoth competitors, they're all multibillion dollar companies global in nature. So we generally compete against giants, we don't have as many local competitors are few, but it's us against the world and the world's best. And so our answer, which is counterintuitive, is to grow and continue to lead. As opposed to shrinking we have a lot of competitors and industries, not necessarily just real estate, that the answer is batten down the hatches and wait for this to blow over. And we're adding talent that suddenly has become available. We're investing heavily in training tools, technology to better serve clients. We're staying ahead of competition by investing in at a time when a lot of people are cutting back cutting people and cutting corners, we see a huge opportunity where others may be see fear or, or are afraid to trend. You know, it's like do you run from the fight in the storm? Or do you run to it? I've seen that marine commercial, I think. So we provide value added services such as development, project management, and Santos with research capabilities and market intelligence second to none. What we do differently as we're, I think, a lot more nimble, innovative and flexible for clients than the global bureaucratic behemoth can be just due to their nature, it's hard to turn around the Titanic on a dime. We also HUBZone use proven processes to help clients maximize their investments and profits, minimizing risk and minimizing risk is today, probably more important than it ever was, we'll always be successful. We put our clients first and help businesses succeed much like your business. Our mission is to make a meaningful difference for clients, employees in our community. And we do that every day.

I'm with you. And what it's funny you say that so what I did was and the millennials in our in our firm hadn't seen the movie you ever see Deza thunder with Tom Cruise? I gave the analogy. It's like the entire world goes on yellow, and we're coming out of the pits with the hammer down and I'm telling you, we were hammered down and we still are doing you know, all kinds of things that when the flag goes to green, we're at full speed. And like I said that I'm with you, you know as far as doing some of the doing some of the more innovative and things that others don't do. Yeah, that's a differentiator. And I think like seven We go green, I think there's gonna be a lot of people that are gonna see the same thing that you're doing at resorts that we're doing at our shop. So I mean, which which kind of capabilities, relationships and assets become important postcrisis

Gemini is the word he just said earlier, it's really a key word it's really trying to determine is what we did before appropriate for today, or do we need that more change, do something different going forward, being nimble is very critical. That's why you deal with a lot of entrepreneur owners. And they're used to making changes. And the key is, you know, the the economy and environment is so dynamic, being flexible is really critical. Having access to capital for growth, as important as there will be, I think, and in your industry as well, huge opportunities for clients. Talent is really what makes our business and industry go. So that's really the most critical thing. It's the people, we've been focused on getting the right people in our collaborative culture and who believe in personal professional development and become the best, you know, advisor or service provider possible. We also focus on diversity, we value the entrepreneurial spirit that Americans build on our big global competitors. I would respectfully say that they're much like the US government, they're very large, but they tend not to be as flexible and entrepreneurial. And that spirit is now needed more than ever to grow our way out of this mess. So we need entrepreneurs, to business owners to add jobs and to grow. Yeah,

so one of the things that that we bump into all the time is, is the business owner that owns their real estate. So we've got the business and we've got the real estate and the question becomes, in this environment, which is better, is it better to hold the real estate, and lease leaseback to the buyer with a an option to buy? Or is it better to sell outright? What do you think?

That's good question. So it's a little loaded? The answer is it depends. We have to ask the client questions. That's a cheap way out. We have sorry. But we ask a lot of questions, and then do a pretty sophisticated analysis of owning versus leasing. And there are many soft tissues behind the numbers, they can be a great way for a seller to double down on the sell the business by maintaining a nice cash flow from the firm they are selling. So not only do they get the cash from the sale, but they also get this income stream going forward. And of course, they still own the asset on a reversion down the road. So maybe they sell it to him down the road as an example. So we have several experts until these facts and structuring sets things and and we get in and we'd have to ask them a lot of questions. So every owner has different goals. And the goals really drive whether it makes sense or not. And what their alternatives are for investing those dollars.

sam smith  32:56  
Well, I'll tell you from from our end, normally, we need the real estate to serve as collateral, you know, because there's just not enough collateral in the business. And if the bank can get their little hands on it, they're going to they're going to clamp down on it. And so and always sent it always seems to be no matter what that the business owner ends up having to sell the real estate and and I don't see any way around it. But boy, I think if if there's enough tangible assets and enough collateral and the business is operating well, yeah, boy, that. I mean, it makes sense. Having that income stream, you know, for a prolonged period of time is a really good spot, especially for a retiring business owner.

Ed Mysogland  33:42  
When it was needed to sell the business I say, keep keep the real estate or so.

Yeah. All right, I need you to take a look at your crystal ball. So what is your forecast in the next few years?

Well, I'm gonna be Nostradamus here and I see a extended recession, a Democratic president, higher taxes, more social programs, more regulations on business, a bank bailout, a lot of REO properties becoming available, higher inflation, higher interest rates. And despite all that, so it sounds like I'm really ready to go out and jump off a tall building. But I see huge opportunity for entrepreneurial commercial real estate firms to thrive in this environment. Because of the many challenges our clients face. They're greatly in need of knowledgeable, talented, experienced innovative, technologically savvy, value added commercial real estate advisors, who offer them creative solutions that help them maximize profits and mitigate risks in this dynamic environment. So we are pivoting our business to capitalize on that. You know, it's been said One man's trash is another man's treasure. John Adams said every problem is an opportunity to skies and we really believe that so we're looking at REO blend and extends lease restructurings, consolidation sub leases, helping out lenders, borrowers, tenants, business owners survive and prosper there, there'll be a lot of opportunities to profit from those challenging situations for a competent advisor.

Well, that there was a lot there. Oh my gosh. So yeah, I don't I don't know, I not that I disagree with, with you. I just, you know, for the first time in my life, I'm you just sit there and you're just like, oh, my gosh, which way is this world going to go? And you have no, I have no idea. I mean, the our current president continues to, you know, shoot himself in the foot period, you know, regularly and you look at, well, you know, how is how are we going to be led out of this and, and who and how, and when we start looking at the I don't want to say the alternatives. But I think you're right with the recession? I think you're probably right with the Democratic president. I would I hope you're not right, on the higher taxes. But I think you're you are. And but I but probably out of all of those. I hope that there's less regulations on on businesses, less regulations and better health care, I think, you know, and I certainly this is not a political show, but I'll tell you what, you solve healthcare in small business. I mean, you saw that's a real big, big, big issue that makes a lot of problems go away. Well, you're you're a business owner. I mean, you know, the, you know, the drill on,

I write the checks, I know that you're talking

sam smith  36:39  
about, yeah, so you solve that problem. And there's a, you know, a lot of it cascades, a lot of the problems go away. You know, one of the things I wanted to ask you, and I probably should ask you sooner, but at resource you guys do more than just than just the sale and, and buying and selling of commercial real estate, there's there's a whole slew of other services that you do, right?

Ed Mysogland  37:05  
Yes. So an example would be we provide development services, construction oversight, project management. We do you know, the asset resolutions, we stabilized properties, obviously acquire or dispose of properties, property management, capital markets, we do a lot of work in that area investment, property sales. And then we do what's called corporate real estate or Corporate Solutions, where we help companies across geography with their real estate acquisitions and dispositions. We can provide lease administration services, we have a separate route that doesn't send a procurement also cites election labor analytics. So it's a pretty broad array of services that we provide clients. And we're now getting into the development business, as well. And so we can kind of help clients from cradle to grave, depending upon what their needs are. We just tried to wrap services to help them make their life easy and achieve their goals.

sam smith  38:00  
Yeah, well, is there an avatar? I mean, do you have a particular this is this is what our client, our typical client looks like? What does that look like? Yeah, typical

client would be a business owner, a business leader, typically would be no 10 plus employees, ideally, 100 plus employees, but you know, we do a lot of work with small businesses and, and help them grow. So we provide a basket of services to a client that generally doesn't have the in house resources. And so we can provide some really great advice as well as information as well as services, and then frees them up to kind of run their core business and not be distracted by the hassles of commercial real estate.

Ed Mysogland  38:45  
I got it. So I pick up the phone I call Sam, tell me, tell me the process. I get you on the phone after this podcast. I say, Sam, I need your help. Tell me what happens next.

sam smith  38:57  
Yes, so again, we're a lot more like a business consultant. So you know, there are a lot of people our business that you know, I call camp driver, brokers, anyone compliance space, but we really try to help companies grow their business that's much more comprehensive and entails more strategy and services today to help them achieve their goals. Obviously, risk mitigation is critical today. And it starts really with a detailed needs analysis so we can understand our clients goals and business and then we wrap our strategy and team and services around that.

Ed Mysogland  39:31  
I got so so it's it's more of a scoping the project and then you guys figure out how to move forward.

sam smith  39:38  
Yes, and with who and who are the right team and we achieve their goals.

Ed Mysogland  39:44  
So at the end of every podcast, I ask every one of our guests that if they had one piece of advice to give our listeners that would have the most immediate impact on their business, what would it be?

sam smith  39:57  
Today, I would highly recommend that they take stock of their business model. And that means evaluating their marketplace, it's likely changed, possibly, fundamentally long term. And what worked before, I don't believe is necessarily going to be good enough going forward for many companies, many industries. And so the question is, what are your challenges and opportunities? It's important to determine what needs to change, what do you need to do differently in order to maximize profits and minimize risks going forward. And then you identify the right strategic partners or advisors who can help you get there. Got

Ed Mysogland  40:33  
it. So hey, Sam, what's the best way we can we can connect with you?

sam smith  40:38  
Well, our My email is sam.smith@rcra.com. My cell number is 317-345-5616. And you can check us out at our cre.com is our website.

Ed Mysogland  40:52  
And one thing you didn't add that I will add to the show notes is how active you are on LinkedIn. It amazes me that you're able to run your practice, but yet, it seems as though you are so all over LinkedIn, talking about and promoting, you know, a lot of different things about real estate and growth and all the things that we've talked about today. So I would encourage, and like I said, I'll have a link to your to your LinkedIn profile for people to to connect with you because I do really think you do a good job of educating, educating people out on LinkedIn on what you guys are doing and how to be a better business owner. So thanks for that. Because I know it's certain it certainly has helped me.

sam smith  41:37  
I appreciate that and and likewise for you, I enjoy your podcast and your LinkedIn, you will share that there as well and a lot of education and value for business owners

Ed Mysogland  41:50  
very, very helpful. Well, Sam, but you know what I'm so grateful for for how generous you are with your time and all the experience that you have over the 40 years helping business owners. And to learn more about Sam and resource go to our care.com Sam, thanks so much again for being being here and being a defender of business value.

Thank you for having me.

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