EP 21: Perry Marshall - What Does the Pareto Principle Have to Do with Business Value?

Ed Mysogland  0:00  
Welcome the show, Perry,

Perry Marshall  1:57  
thank you for having me. We've are it's I know, it's gonna be interesting, because from talking before we went on air, so I'm delighted to be here, and everybody's gonna get some nuggets that you can use to make more money with less time and less effort and find the real lovers and your business. So glad to be here.

Ed Mysogland  2:19  
Well, I'm glad to have you. So before before you came on, I shared a little bit about you from the bio your staff provided, but please give us 20% overview that will tell us 80%, about you.

Perry Marshall  2:32  
Well, so I am the guy who was an engineer. And when my wife was three months pregnant, I got laid off from my engineering job. And I couldn't stay in the same specialty without moving from Chicago. And so I went into sales. And I thought, well, you know, I've had a lot of sales guys visit me and my engineering job. You know, I don't know that these guys seem to be all that sharp. I think this should be a piece of cake.

Ed Mysogland  3:10  
Famous last word.

Perry Marshall  3:11  
Yeah, yeah, I remember this friend of mine saying, you know, Perry, you don't just stick a pencil behind your ear and enter a new profession. And he was right, as well. So two years of pounding pavement and pounding phone directories and training, get through gatekeepers, and go see people who didn't want to see me and adding tons of miles on my car and getting really skinny Commission checks and projects that suddenly flake out at the last minute, you know, like, you get everything lined up. And then one of the vendors vomits all over everything, you know, like, like, I had this company and they were going to they're going to have all these circuit boards converted to surface mount technology. And I got him to this company that can do it. And in the in the engineering manager goes. So let's go see her engineering department. And the guy says, Oh, well, we sold that last week. And we're going to be outsourcing it to this other guy and like the whole meeting just went you it's like, like in cartoons where it goes, wah, wah, wah, wah, you know, like, the guy wouldn't even return my phone calls after they left you can tell they were mad. You know, and it's like, like, what when I came to work that morning, like I didn't see this coming. You know, and so anyway, like lots of like lots of people have have been through that. And well, so about two years into that with And at this point, credit cards are up to the our eyeballs. And you know, like, things are starting to fray and break. And like, you know that like this this, the spaceship is cracking up captain. I discovered direct marketing. I went to a presentation that Dan Kennedy gave, and he levitated about 300 bucks out of my wallet. And I learned, I learned that there was a whole world. And by the way, this is about 20 years ago, I learned that there was a whole world of copywriting and direct response marketing and mailing lists. And like, I suddenly understood, like, what if I got an airplane and I looked at a Sky Mall catalog, which I guess those have disappeared, but, you know, for years, they'd have those, you know, gadget catalogs in the airplane, I suddenly get, it suddenly crystallized, that there was an entire world where business gets done without anybody talking to anybody. Okay, this is just before the internet's about to really hit. And, and it turns out, whether people realize it or not, most of what actually works on the internet, when it comes to selling stuff. And all of us, you know, we get emails, and there's ecommerce, and there's Black Friday sales and all this kind of stuff. Most of what works in selling on the internet actually comes from the, the direct mail and catalog businesses of the 20th century. And, and, and that was a very well developed science, even though nobody really paid any attention to it back then. And I discovered that world and what I discovered was, I could take pieces of that world, bolt them onto the front end of a business to business, you know, sales organization, like whether I was selling industrial equipment, which was what I was doing, or whether you're selling businesses the way that you do, or whether you're a lawyer or a doctor, or chiropractor, or a plumber, or a butcher, baker candlestick maker, that I could take elements of direct response marketing, and whether it was direct mail, or Valpak coupon books, or Google ads, or Facebook ads, or emails, or what have you, that that I could get people to steadily and reliably come to me instead of me chasing them. And one of the one of the things that made my sales career particularly painful, was that I am a naturally consultative salesperson. I, I am not the kind of guy who can just walk into some business and start slapping people on the back and telling jokes and asking them about their fish on the wall and, you know, in and buy him some bowls, tickets, you know, and like, and get them to buy stuff, like I don't feel like I belong there. Unless I can actually solve a problem and use my expertise and use my education and use my my rationality and my resourcefulness. And in this my first sales job was really a job where they wanted a guy that was just going to go get the purchase order, right, you know, buy by the guys the doughnuts and sell them the proximity switches. And, and in so, so it was a real struggle. And if if you are a consultative salesperson, the worst thing you can do is go make cold calls and beg. Because you are starting with one foot in the grave. It's like imagine a guy standing in a grave looking up at you and saying, hey, you know, I know it doesn't really look at it, but I'm a cardiologist.

Ed Mysogland  9:43  
We fight that we fight the same thing that we're trying to talk to business owners of something that they really need to really consider and whether it's now or a decade from now you have to understand your business in order to sell it and they just Don't do it. And we have an entire industry that's, that's working like crazy to try to educate business owners, you know, that whole consultative selling to my knowledge. I'm not certain anybody's cracked the code yet?

Perry Marshall  10:15  
Well, well. So what I found so here's what happened, what what happened was a couple just a couple switches like fell into place. One of them was I got fired from my job after two years. And I managed to find another one fairly quickly. The new job, we had a website, this is 1997. So this so So in 1997, most people weren't really using the internet. But engineers work because engineers tend to be a little ahead of the curve. And we sold engineering stuff, we had a very primitive website, what we discovered was, if we put good quality problem solving information in front of people, we can generate leads, and we can get people to fill in the form and say, I would like to know more, and then I could reach out. And because they had come to me, instead of me chasing them. I was in a much better positions. So they would ask me a question, they would actually assume that I probably had a good answer. And then I couldn't be the consultative salesperson. And so then what we did is we pull vaulted because we started creating boot camps and workshops to give people really quality education about this industrial networking stuff that we were selling. We started coordinating activities with trade organization, for the industry and stuff like that. And we became the Mouse that Roared, like, we were literally one of the smallest companies in our space, like we were, we were a $2 million company in a business where most of the players were 50 or $100 million, or even billion dollar companies. But we were putting so much quality information into the marketplace, and positioning it so well, that we looked 10 times bigger than we were and people would come to our workshops, and they would listen to us. And they would read our magazine articles. And so we position ourselves as experts. And one thing that you will find is that in any sales transaction, somebody has the upper hand. And it's not necessarily the person with the money. People assume it's the person with the money. No, no, no, listen. Let's say your net worth is $10 million. And you had a heart attack yesterday, or you just found out you have pancreatic cancer. Does having $10 million, give you the upper hand.

Ed Mysogland  13:06  
Right, a lot of this with the business owners that we work with. I mean, in fact, it just happened where we had consulted with a business owner. And we were helping position her and she tabled it. She said look, I'm I don't have time for it. She called me up. Now. I've got six weeks to live. Can you can you help me sell my company? Oh, Maya, so Wow. And nearly six weeks to the day she's gone. And and you know that that family? Now will not. I mean, it was a fire sale. And I mean, pennies on the dollar and and it could have all been avoided. And so yeah, so along the same same lines, what what difference does it make if you have $10 million, or not

Perry Marshall  13:53  
right now, and now I want to but I want to I'm just illustrating the point that if you have a lot of money, but you still don't know how to solve a problem, it could be any problem, you could be remodeling your bathroom, okay? If you if you don't have know how to solve your problem, or you don't have a reliable person who can solve your problem, then the reliable person who can prove that they're reliable, still has the upper hand. Okay. And a lot of a lot of times, entrepreneurs, marketers, salespeople, they are so used to having the short end of the stick. In actuality, they're sort of afraid to have the upper hand and my point is you need to have the upper hand. I cannot help my clients unless they respect me. I had a conversation with one of my gurus about 15 years ago, John Carlton. I was a I was a freelancer. I was doing these projects I was kind of doing okay. And, and I knew I needed help. And so I, I, while I bought some help, you know, like I went and bought a coaching package from a guy and, and I could reach out to him and ask him questions. And so I got into this tiff with a client over how we're going to do their website and all this stuff. And so I emailed him and I said, Well, here's what's going on, and he emails me back, he goes, he goes, You did all of that. For $3,000. He goes, Perry, if I was doing that, I would have charged him at least 15. He says, Listen, if the CEOs hand is not shaking, when he writes you the check, you're not charging enough because Perry, you're not a mouth in the food chain, you are the food chain. That's interesting. And and, and, and it harken back to a conversation I had when I was 16. I went out for cokes with one of my my my friend's dad. And I didn't know that much about him well turned out. He was a management professor at the local university. He was the highest paid faculty member at the entire university. And this is a 1986. He says Perry, I do consulting on the side, and I charge three to $5,000 a day. And I listen to that I'm like, my dad doesn't even make $5,000 a month, like I had just total sticker shock. And, and he says Perry, I don't charge that money because I need the money goes, I got plenty of money he goes, the reason I charge that much money is when a CEO is paying you three to $5,000 a day to tell him tell you what's wrong with his company. When you sit down and tell him he takes notes. And, and so it's it's all about positioning authority, trust, and respect. And you know, you in your business, you know, you're buying and selling companies. And that's even more important, because what most people don't realize about buying and selling businesses is that businesses are bought and sold for just as many weird and bizarre reasons as people buy and sell their car, or their house, or their boats. Okay, it's like, oh, I just got this, you know, horrible diagnosis, I'm going to die in six weeks, oh, I have to sell my business. It could be like that, right? Or it could be, well, you know, my, my ex wife is moving to another city, and it's going to change my situation, and I can't, I can't deal with this anymore. So you know, like, are these weird things, they'll have a while I just got this inheritance, and I gotta go deal with these other things. So I'm gonna sell this business like, or, or the reasons why people buy a business is just as weird. And just as varied, okay, and so like, there's all of these, there's all of these situations. And if you want to make the best that you can out of the situation, you need authority and you need positioning in you need people to believe you're the expert. And so so that's the game that you are playing. Now,

Ed Mysogland  18:45  
well, the interesting thing is, and so we talk a lot about the 8020 principle that you that you certainly popularized. But the funny thing is that after reading your books I had, and it was at 20 sales and marketing was what was my first introduction to it. And the more I dug into it, the more I was seeing it in our in our business, like for example, the cashflow to revenue ratio, I know that if I can get it above 20%, I can then about guarantee 80% of the time the company is going to sell. Whereas before that's not the case, I mean that we have I mean, we're a little bit higher, we have about a 30% success ratio, but as a industry as a whole. I mean, it's only about 20 25%. So at any rate, I started seeing more and more about that. So are in the consulting that that you're doing with, with business owners, are you seeing that kind of what is 8020 principle? And then are you seeing that with the people that you're consulting to amplify their value?

Perry Marshall  19:51  
So 8020 is much much bigger and deeper than most people everything so probably most people somewhere along the way have heard the story about the Italian economist Vilfredo Pareto, who figured out in every country he studied 20% of the people had 80% of the money. 20% of the people owned 80% of the real estate. And it didn't actually seem to matter whether they said that they were capitalists or socialists or communists, or whatever, the inequality always seemed to be about the same, which is true, by the way. Okay. Well, so most people have heard that, and probably a lot of salespeople have heard that 20% of your customers give you 80% of your sales. Okay, so that's, that's true. But It's way bigger, way deeper than that. So most people think it's just this business rule of thumb, or this weird ratio, that just kind of happens to be the case? No, no, it is a fundamental law of cause and effect, okay. And it's everything, it's just about every spreadsheet that you could make about a business, or marketing or advertising. It's also things like rabbit populations and the size of craters on the moon, or the traffic on the streets in your, in your town, or the traffic's on the inner interstate, in the United States, or, you know, how busy the airports are, all of these things are at 20 witches. So 20% of the roads have 80% of the cars, and 20% of the sand in the bucket takes up 80% of the space in the bucket. And, and 20% of your carpet has 80% of the dirt tracked on it because 80% of the traffic is in these small, narrow pathways through your house. Okay. So this is I mean, this is true all over the place. But furthermore, this is where the kicker is. It's fractal, which means pattern and a pattern and a pattern and a pattern. There is an 8020 Inside every 8020. So 20% of the roads have 80% of the cars, but 20% of 20% of the roads have 80% of 80% of the cars. And 20% of 20% of 20% of roads have 80 of 80 of 80. So 1% of the roads have 50% of the cars. Now we all know that's true. But when you generalize it to there's this pretty simple math formula that says whether we're talking about product defects, or customer support tickets, or or shoplifting in your store, or problem employees or high performance employees, or which ads in your Facebook account are generating the most leads, or which numbers in a business analysis affect whether you sell a business or not. Or which factors in business operation affect profit ability. All of those things are at 20. And all of those things are at 20 squared. And all of those things are at 20 cubed. Okay, so So let's talk about what you just said. Okay, so you said well, to, if I can rephrase what I think I heard you say was, was you'll do it better, you found a tipping point where if you can get the profitability above a threshold of 20% it overwhelmingly increases the likelihood of the hood of the business getting sold.

Ed Mysogland  24:03  
Okay, it's correct. sounded better with you saying it too. Now.

Perry Marshall  24:06  
That's not true because of the number of 20 that's not really why. Okay, you could be neat if you were in certain industries, certain industries might be lucky to have a 5% profit margin, and you'd sell the business all day long at six. It's not the it's not the number 20 Here's what it is. It's the top 20% of profitability of all the businesses under consideration. Okay, if if the average profitability was 15 that was like the 50th percentile puts you at a 15% profit profitability than being 20% profitable, gets you to the 80th percent. TTYL Well, 80th percentile is the dotted line between the haves and the have nots. Got it, okay, so, so if you, let's go to Vilfredo, Pareto 100 years ago, when he figured this out, 20% of the people have 80% of the money and 80% of the people have 20% of the money, that means the haves have 16 times more money than they have nots. And it's true. Okay, so the businesses that are selling are 16 times easier to sell, than the businesses that are not selling. And, and it comes down to 1718 1920 2122. Like there's a, there's a transition point, and you get you get from this side to this side of it, and all of a sudden, everything's much easier. Okay, and this is true. So that, just that, that, that that idea of a tipping point, where, you know, most people are down here, and they're just flopping around in the mud. And they're just struggling to get by, right. And then all of a sudden, you get past this point, it's like, Hey, man, you know, we can buy a nice lunch, we could have a nice employee Christmas party, we got some options, we can, we can pay off our credit cards, and then we can start making interest instead of paying interest and all these little things, they just start working in your favor, and they are true across all of these different segments of your business. So it's true in in the profit margin of what makes a business sell. Its true in a Facebook account of which posts actually got comments and likes and shares and which ones didn't. It's, it's true in product defects, you're making Ford Rangers. And, you know, there's like a million things that can go wrong with a Ford Ranger. But actually, there's like five defects that generate 80 to 90% of the phone calls and warranty returns or product recalls are what if you just fix those five things? You can forget about all of the other 995. And you got your problem 90% Solve?

Ed Mysogland  27:24  
I gotcha. Well, so business owners, you know, we're talking about as part of the 8020 principle, we were talking about the chaos, chaos theory, and there's probably no greater place to find chaos theory in the life of a business owner. So if I'm, if I'm that business are where do I get started to identify that 20% That will cascade everything else? How just Are there particular areas that you've seen that this is where you should at least started? It's agnostic to what industry? This is where you ought to

Perry Marshall  27:59  
go? Yes. So most businesses are losing money. On five or 10% of the products, they sell five or 10% of the services, they provide five or 10% of the customers and clients they serve five or 10% of their employees or contractors five or 10% of their vendors. Okay, so let me give you an example. I gave a keynote speech to a roomful of Certified Public Accountants

Ed Mysogland  28:36  
a few years ago, that's party and that was a party

Perry Marshall  28:39  
man, actually is a pretty nice people. I mean, you know, I know lots of

Ed Mysogland  28:45  
accounts, they just need a drink or two and um, then then the, the shields come down. Well, so

Perry Marshall  28:51  
I'm standing in front of these people. I said, Okay, how many of you, you got this client, they pay you like 300 bucks, not a lot of money. They call you on like, April 13. And they get this giant shoebox of receipts, and it's a big giant mess. And they send you 872 emails, and they can't get themselves together, and you're filing all these extensions. And then finally, in the middle of June, they finally get their stuff together. And and how many of you can all the hands go up? I said, Okay. So today, we're going to change your life. I said, So I Perry Marshall, best selling author at 20. Expert. I give you permission to fire that client. I said there is no law of the universe that says that you have to do this guy's taxes. There's no law of the universe that says you have to take his business. And you don't have to be mean about it. Please send him a letter. Well, you know, my board of directors had a meeting this week, and we're changing our direction a little bit, and we're just not going to be able to serve you this year. And so we're going to help transition you to a different tax firm. Okay. And then the minute you did that, okay, you lost $300. But you gain 20 hours.

Ed Mysogland  30:24  
Yeah, no, no. But but, you know, the, but it's one of those things where the entrepreneur is sitting here saying, you know, what, it takes a lot for me to just just hold on to that, and I, and I'm scared, I don't want I don't want to lose that. And so how do I get over that? Okay, so first

Perry Marshall  30:42  
of all, first of all, you are losing money by taking that guy's business. Why? Because, you, okay, a CPA should not be making $15 an hour. Right? Okay, a CPA, I'd be making, I don't know, 100 200, whatever. Okay, if you're doing 20 hours of work for $300 tax return, you are not doing stuff that's worth $1,000 an hour. Okay, because here's the way work really is, there's $10 An hour work. Like emptying the wastebasket, and mowing the lawn and going for office supplies, and you know, stuff like that, okay, then there's $100 An hour work, which is solving a problem for a customer answering the phone responsibly, you know, doing what you're supposed to do we get, then there's $1,000 An hour work, which is figuring out where you're gonna get sources of new clients, negotiating and closing deals, which actually many times is really $10,000 An hour work, not 1000, like negotiating, like negotiating anything significant is at least $10,000 an hour. Okay. I'm rethinking the way that you work the systems in your business in improving flows, making sure for example, that if a customer calls and they got money to spend, they don't get put on hold, okay? If you spend the next week just solving that problem, that's $1,000 An hour all week long. Right, but you're not doing it. If you're mucking around with some guy who can't get his receipts together. Okay, and so yes, people like hold on to stuff but at 20 Listen at 20 is more about what you say no to then it's about what you say yes to? Because what do you say yes to? is often chaos theory like well, you know, when is that phone call gonna come in. That's chaos theory. You don't know when that phone call is going to come in. But you can say no to stuff that's right in front of you. Most people are addicted. They are so addicted to busyness that they they trick themselves into feel good. Getting $300 for 20 hours of working on a tax return no. Like you would be better sitting in a park bench. Watching the geese and doing nothing then doing some guys taxes. Because at least you're meditating, praying, centering yourself, calming yourself down. Not having anxiety, living your life.

Ed Mysogland  33:56  
Right, right. A little while ago you were talking about you know, you're up to your eyeballs and credit card you were you were fraying the spaceship was was starting to break up. I think so many business owners are there and most. Yeah. And so when they're sitting there, when you're saying yeah, you know what, you'd be better off sitting on this park bench. There's an IRS and you know, you don't know my banker. You don't, you know, I've got I've got payroll to make this Friday. How am I supposed to do that? And, and I don't think that there is a I don't wanna say a great answer it, but it's all about fear. How do you how do you dispose of that fear to say you know what I can do without this $300 tax return? I'm not worried about it, though. There'll be something coming around the corner. Okay, so

Perry Marshall  34:44  
you need to exercise. I'm just gonna call it faith in 8020 as a law of nature 8020 guarantees you that five or 10 percent of what you're doing is literally driving you backwards. It is losing you money. It is it is, is moving you backwards in your career backwards in your business, it's holding you back. Okay, little, it's like cement shoes 10. All, I'll guarantee you that 510, at least five or 10% of what you're doing is literally counterproductive. Okay? Furthermore, I'll guarantee you that about 50% of what you're doing is accomplishing very little. And only 20% of what you're doing is actually moving the needle. It's it's a law of nature that this is true. Now, if you are smart about it, and if you're aware of it, what you start to do is you start to be ruthless about the stuff that is not really moving you forward, that is holding you back. And you start lasering in on where are the levers. So here's an example of a lever, dentist office, phone rings, Helen picks up the phone, there's all this commotion going on. With like dental, please hold, okay, and then she puts the person on hold. And then two minutes later, somebody picks up have you been helped? Yeah, ba ba, ba, ba ba in Oh, let me transfer you somebody else. And then they go on hold, right. And then two minutes later, and then the person hangs up. They were getting ready to spend $15,000 to get a whole bunch of dental work done that they've been putting off for years, and the advertisement or the newspaper or whatever, and the dentist has spent all this money, it finally got them over the hump and they called and then there was the circus that happened. Okay, so if they were going to spend $50,000, and with five minutes of hold music and circus, they lost the sale, than how many dollars per hour did that dentist's office lose $15,000 into five minutes. I believe that's $180,000 an hour. Now, that's really crude math, I shouldn't know. But it's a tremendous amount of money was lost in a very short period of time, by a process that will never be perfectly right unless somebody really focuses on it, right? But it's like, okay, we're not gonna do the $300 tax return. And we're gonna, we're gonna take our 20 hours, and we're gonna get a system in place with our staff and the phones and everything. But note that this could never happen. Helen, Helen could never just put somebody on hold and lose a $15,000 sale chair. And we fix that and then all of a sudden Chaos Theory two and a half weeks later, when one of those sales over we capture it and look like we're talking about dentistry, a well run dental practice that's running on all cylinders can be very profitable. Okay. And, and and this, yeah, this is this is what we're talking about. There are, there are tons. So that phone call where Helen dropped the ball that is an 8020 lever that is 1% of the phone calls, that produces 50% of the revenue. And you don't know when it's gonna come and it's got to be handled right?

Ed Mysogland  38:44  
Well, that's it. That's interesting. Because I know we're getting ready to bump up against some time issues. But one of the biggest challenges that any business owner faces is being the business. So and I know you've consulted on this before, but how does that business owner like turn from I am the business to be this business as an investment and you treat it as such. So can you talk a little bit about how that business owner makes that transition?

Perry Marshall  39:14  
Well, so you may be able to completely do that. Or you may only be able to partially do that. But let's say that you could only partially do that, let's say let's say that? Well, let's say you're a cosmetic dental surgeon, and you're one of the best in the country. And so you can't entirely get the business to run on itself. But here's what you can do. Here's what you can do. Okay. You can get rid of the $10 an hour work. You can get rid of the $100 an hour or you can get rid of the $1,000 an hour working only do the $10,000 an hour work and that's exactly what you should do.

Ed Mysogland  39:56  
Yeah, so how but I go down the road I turned around And I want to sell it. Now what do I do i and even though I'm doing 10,000 out and and again, it may be one of those things where it look, yeah, I recognize that I'm going to do the $10,000 an hour work. And when this when this party's over the party's over, and I'm not going to sell it. And but I've capitalized all throughout my career, I guess from a, from a understanding what you have, that's probably a different animal. But for the, for the garden variety business owner, you know, how do I how do I get out from in the middle?

Perry Marshall  40:33  
Well, so. So that guy, so the guy who's just described, let's say, he's one of the best dentists in the whole country, it doesn't keep him from having three or four dentists who work for him who do $1,000 An hour work and do it very well. And, and that makes the $10,000 stuff optional. Okay. Now, I just had a conversation yesterday with a person who runs a private practice. And here's what I told him. Cuz it was the same situation, different, different profession, but same situation. I said, I said, if you get rid of the tenant $100 An hour work, you can train other professionals to do the $1,000 an hour work that gets you free. But you won't be able to train them unless you get rid of the $110 an hour stuff first. And I have a chart in AD 20 sales and marketing that actually it's like, here's a list of $10 an hour things. And here's a list of 100. And it's very, it's probably one of people's favorite pages in the book. And you have to become exquisitely mindful of how much is this thing that I'm doing right now? How much per hour? Is this actually worth? Is this a 10 100 1000? If you start answering, asking that question, in a year, you'll automatically be way closer to the ideal that you are just talking about. Right now?

Ed Mysogland  42:14  
Well, if you had one piece of advice to give our listeners that would have the most immediate impact on their business value, what would it be?

Perry Marshall  42:21  
Decide what you're going to say no, to decide what you're going to cut? Decide what you're going to not do? Most entrepreneurs are yes, people. We like to say yes to stuff. And that's why we're where we are. What are you going to say no to?

Ed Mysogland  42:37  
What's the best way we can connect with you,

Perry Marshall  42:39  
I suggest that you go to sell@twenty.com you can buy at 20 Sales and Marketing for a penny plus shipping. So that's seven bucks in the US. In 14 bucks International. This book will change your life. It really well. If you read the Amazon reviews, it's got about 400 reviews, 4.7 stars, go through that. And people say oh my goodness, I I never see the world the same way again, at mine at the

Ed Mysogland  43:15  
Google Google AdWords. That's a That's a deep dive into a whole nother topic. Yeah. But my goodness, what, what a body of work you've had, and can and still have and continue to do you want to talk a little bit about evolution 2.0 And what you're doing there?

Perry Marshall  43:36  
Just briefly, so. So in May, I went to the Royal Society in Great Britain and announced the largest fundamental science research prize in the world. And it's called evolution 2.0. And it and it's an A, we are looking for an answer to the question. What gives life that spark? Where did life come from? Where does the information that makes life work come from and this began 15 years ago, when my younger brother who was a missionary in China, I went to visit him. And when I got there, I found out he doesn't believe this stuff anymore. He's not a missionary anymore. He's bailed on the whole thing. He's moving home, and he's almost an atheist. And it it sent me down a deep, deep science rabbit hole to figure out what questions do we have the answers to and what questions do we not have the answers to and so 15 years later, there's a book there's a Technology Prize. And well, if you if you wonder, like where did it all come from? And where's it all going? You go to Evo two.org and get three, three free chapters of my book and and find out how that adventure proceeded.

Ed Mysogland  45:05  
Awesome. Well Very thank you. So I can't tell you how grateful I am for how generous you you've been with your your time and experiences to help people that we work with maximize their value. So thank you for being a defender of business value and have a great holiday. You

Perry Marshall  45:23  
too. Thank you. Take care, Ed.