EP 8: Mike Finger - Coaching Business Owners to a Successful Sale

Mike Finger  0:35  
I'm thrilled to be here. I appreciate the invitation.

Ed Mysogland  2:47  
 Well, to begin with, tell me where did exes Oh, Aces come from? And I guess fill in the pieces of what you've been doing? You know, throughout the from the start to to now? 

Mike Finger  3:00  
Sure, sure. Sure. Well, I mean, the genesis of exit Oasis, for me was my personal experience. When I first started to look at selling my first business, I found the space terrifying as as a small business owner, I

have since and over the years dealt with some incredibly effective and helpful professionals in the field. But you and I both know that there are brokers who are real jackasses out there. And I had occasion to run into some of them early on when I was a business owner. And so I found the space terrifying. I found it hard to learn, I found most of the material that was out there was designed and targeted towards businesses that were 10 times the size that my business was they'd call a business small. And then they talk about its $20 million of revenue. And I you know, I've just glazed over because we know that, you know, subsequently I've learned that some of the lessons don't apply. It's not you know, it's not the same for truly small business. So, you know, for me it was that that desire to help other small business owners find a safe place to explore the exit of their business to explore the topic to learn to find out what they don't know. They don't know. So well. 

Ed Mysogland  4:26  
Awesome. Yeah. One of the one of the things that that you you cite, and I've seen the same statistic is that 90% of companies aren't sellable. What uh, what is unsellable mean? What are the attributes that make a business unsellable? 

Mike Finger  4:42  
Why? Cuz I can tell you what made my first business unsellable. As you mentioned in the in the introduction I had when I when I looked to sell the business I had, I had 50 employees we were doing about 5 million in revenue

and after several convert

situations with with a with competitors with brokers. I started going down and checking the list of Ansel lability for myself, I was too owner dependent. There wasn't enough cash flow. The systems weren't mature enough. I mean, right right down the list of things that make a business difficult, if not impossible to transition. Now when I say unsellable, does that mean that I could have if I had put $100 price tag on the door that somebody wouldn't have given me? 100 bucks for it? Yeah, maybe. But there's no way in the world I was going to do that. And I think that's true for most small business owners, we start to have a vision of what exit means. And then I think for the vast majority of us, when we start to engage exit, we discovered that there's a dramatic difference between a survivable business and a sellable business. Yeah, we, and I see this the same thing. And I and I guess when I look at the business owner, and you're probably experiencing the same thing, the definition of sellable differ, there's a spectrum of what that means to to a business owner. And I mean, art, some of the work that you've been doing, it seems as though is resonating. I mean, are people starting to warm up to luck, you have to there's, there's enough information out there that you should at least know that you should be doing some preparation for the sale? Are you seeing that in your practice? I am. It's it's, it's encouraging. It's, it feels to me like a fairly substantial undertaking. And here's what I mean by that is that the industry as a whole is compensated when businesses sell. And we both know that brokers sell businesses only after they have a conversation and qualify. So for most in the industry, there's a vested interest there. And letting the business owner believe that they have a sellable business, because I don't call up the broker, if I don't think I can sell my business. Sometimes it feels like we're fighting that wave I, it's never my intention to be discouraging to the small business owner. I am a small business owner, I believe in their ability to do remarkable things when they have the goal identified. And so what we hope to do is to help small business owners wake up to the reality that as you pointed out,

the percentages are incredibly discouraging when it comes to the likelihood that any individual small business sells successfully. Best numbers I can find is 20%. Those are the most optimistic numbers I can find. If you've got better point me in the right direction, right? I mean, what what do you see out there? I think I tire of everybody's an exit planner these days. It doesn't matter what discipline you are, it seems everybody wants to be in the space, but they're only they're only interested in, in what served as lead gen for whatever their particular services, whether it be accounting or

Ed Mysogland  8:26  
brokerage. Do you know, I, I,

I think the statistic that I've seen is that 87%, and I end Don't ask me where I had looked for years for where I ran into it. But it always reminded me that 87% of companies don't have any kind of professional representation when going to market. And that's a staggering number, not just from, from representation, just from an education standpoint. So I know, in our practice, that when we do value work, or we're doing prep work, that it inverses we can 80% of our companies do so because they are they're educated on the value. Why? You know, why? If I have 80% of my business tied up in this one customer, I've worked with Joe for 30 years, why wouldn't he work with you? Oh, right. Yeah, the guy's stroking the check, and he doesn't eat. He doesn't know whether Joe is gonna come. So that's why

preparing the business and preparing, just educating on how the buyer is going to look at it is an entirely different thing. But yeah, statistically speaking, we inverse it, it goes 80% that

Mike Finger  9:43  
we're successful. That's fabulous. That's fabulous. What do you see in the market as a whole? I mean, do you does that 20% Number resonate or do you do you think it's higher than that? Yeah, we're a little higher. We're, we're we're running probably 30 Maybe but but

Ed Mysogland  10:00  
Not much, not much more than that. Yeah, and, you know, the more attractive businesses, you know, the manufacturing of distribution, professional services, it probably goes even a little higher than that, because it just seems that there's more access to, to get information, there's more people that are that are seeking to serve them.

But it's still, again, you know, we're still running into those same business owners that show up and say, Well, this is what I want.

Make it happen? Well, it Yeah, it just doesn't, it doesn't work that way. And, you know, over the course of our 40 years, as we do business valuation, we do equipment, appraisal, we do all these things to help the business owner recognize where the value is in their cut in their companies. And this, you know, and I can tell you each time I present a valuation, you know, I stopped writing reports, it's now you and I are having conversations. So it's more of a deposition, ask your question, because, you know, these are the questions that the other side's going to ask, and you need to, you need to be in a position to understand it. Yeah. So, yeah, but, but as far as you know, I'm not certain, you know, and one of the questions I was going to ask you is, is the tsunami of business owners? Yeah, that are coming to market? I don't know if you've seen it. I haven't seen the the big wave that they keep talking about. I think it's a fascinating subject, because I can speak to both sides of that argument pretty pretty easily. I mean, if you look at the demographics, it's really hard not to believe that some, there's some wave out there, right. I mean, how can there not be, but then when you look at the individual decision making as a business owner, and what that translates into, it's really easy to make an argument that,

you know, don't buy a surfboard yet, man, that's the big waves not coming. So i don't know i What are your thoughts on it? What do you see? Well, you know, I'm looking. So I wrote an article, or I haven't I, it's in Edit now. Should you euthanize your business? And you know, what, if you want to, you want to write your realm, if you're 75 years old, and you're relevant, and your health is okay, and you want to ride that thing into the sunset? Because you've owned it for 50 years? Well, God bless you and go do it. And you know, here's how, here's how this, if you're going to do it, this is how you want to do it.

So I wrote an article about the it was a follow up in our local,

our business journal where the author says everybody turned 65, you know, where you got to prepare for the big wave. And everybody knows that story that the tsunamis here, seven years later, it's still not here. But are all the baby boomers are 72 out. Now, here's my article of yeah, now, we have something to talk about. Because now it's, it's, it's getting closer. The problem. And I'm certain you see the same thing is that businesses aren't updating. Now they're not doing the capital expenditures, keeping the equipment up doing all the things, instead, they're siphoning. And so the challenge that we have is, you know, the buyer that shows up, they're going to ding you from a value standpoint. Now, an equipment appraisal world, it's the cost of cure. If I have to update all the equipment in order for me to make this thing go, Where do you think it's going to come from? So we were seeing, we're seeing some of that? Yeah, I sold the last small business I owned at the end of 2018.

Mike Finger  13:54  
And I, I don't think I've owned my last small business, but I am looking forward to being a buyer, not a seller over the next five years. I think I think the true test of the tsunami hypothesis will be what happens with the next downturn. Because you and I both know, there's an awful lot of small business owners out there that are right in the write up right now. And 65 Feels a lot older when you're dropping growth by 15% a year than it does when you're gaining 15% a year. So

that's as good I think that will test the theory if we don't see the wave at that point. I don't think it's common.

Ed Mysogland  14:36  
And i i I'm with you. I was so I have in this podcast. So I've talked to a number of people about this and most of them out there. They know it's there. There. It's just not defined as it was promised. You know what I mean? If you know it's okay, they got to do something

But what are they going to do?

I,

I'm a graduate over at Butler University, and I do some work over there. And one of the things that I really am encouraged by is a lot of these universities are getting involved in small businesses where they might be succession plans, now that they can come in, you get a millennial. Now, there's credits pretty good, you know, credit in credit that they can borrow money to do it, that seller financing, and you're getting some people that can buy into some of these small businesses. And I know, at Butler, they have

Mike Finger  15:42  
a bit, it's called the business accelerator, and they're actually doing deals. And that's, that's some big bets. If the if the universities are getting into it, you know, you know, it's a fairly safe bet of what where this thing's going? Yeah, well, I tell you what, here's my prediction, I will put the I will etch this in stone, or there's going to be a tsunami, I suspect it's going to be a tsunami of disappointment. It's it, I don't know that we're going to have a bunch more sales, because even if a lot more people want to sell where the buyers come in from it, I mean, where's the where's the dramatic increase in the number of informed capitalized buyers that are going to help out these small business owners? So do I think we're probably going to see an awful lot more a higher number of small business owners disappointed by their inability to exit?

Right? No, well, I don't disagree with you. And and I think at the same time, I think that the business owner that doesn't recognize that, that the buyer that's showing up that they're treating it as an investment, not because not the way you did it, I didn't want to start the business because I was changing my career, I got displaced or whatever, I'm starting my own business, screw you, I'm gonna go, you know, I can do it better than you. Instead, those buyers are showing up saying, you know, what, I need a 30% return for the risk that I'm taking. Now that, and that's some of the challenges that I experienced with, with some of the people we work with is there's no concept of of that, that this is an investment, not just a means for to fill the checkbook. And absolutely, absolutely. And even if the investment is as low brow as I need to be able to buy groceries, and make the payments on the debt I incur to buy this business, how many businesses do we see how many owners do we know that want to sell their business? But don't have results that even meet that minimum standard? Right? Without question, most of the listings that I serve online, it's like no, no, no, no, from that, just that basic standard. Here's the math on the payment on the on the amount you want. Here's what your cash flow is. Why don't I just have a big pile of cash and started on fire on your front lawn? I would be so much further I had.

Ed Mysogland  18:12  
No Yeah, you're exactly right. In fact,

I had a difficult client wants and he was he was just, he was ruthless on from a value standpoint. And finally, I mean, and he wasn't making any money. And that's what obviously he was mad it needed someone to take it out on. So I took a picture of the signing bonus at McDonald's. So there was a it's $24,000. I mean, and that's, that's what this guy was making? And I'm like, sure why well, I mean, all I gotta be able to do is, is dip fries. I mean, why would anyone do that? And you don't understand you. And this is uncertain, your favorite? You don't understand the potential.

Mike Finger  18:58  
Yes, and it's real. And we've been small business owners. And I've felt that it's so real when it when those words come out of my mouth. The problem is, is that then I became a buyer. And my reality is different. And so I don't have to care about what your reality is as the seller, because nothing about your reality changes the fact that the bank is going to want my monthly payment, nothing's going to keep my mortgage from a check from needing to be written. And now those

any one of the things we've tried really hard to do at exit noise is break it down to the simplest terms, right? Because this is a complex topic. You and I both know that we could, we could pick some narrow technicality and spend two hours talking about the ins and outs of it and, and the tricks of it and that's all very real. The problem is is it doesn't apply

To most small business owners, the problem is, is that it's an industry that's, that's compensated based on their ability to solve complications. And I'm thrilled that they're there to do that, because I've used and sold businesses because of their ability to do that. But only after I had built a sellable business, everything else comes after that everything else comes after my results by my business. That's, that's the simple reality. That's a mantra that we talk to owners about is that everything else comes after that if you're not achieving basic results that allow a buyer to meet those two basic needs, and forget about everything else, and change the business. So it can do that. So tell me, the process behind your service. How does that? How does that work? And how does somebody effectively use you? Sure, sure. Well, we've got we've got a couple of things going right now, the main thing that we're focusing on right now is our free email newsletter, that is an opportunity for the small business owner, to get a consistent, exclusive content message about what it means to build a business and create a business that you can sell.

And so we curate great content that we find from around the web, I'm agnostic, when it comes to where the content comes from. If it's if it's good content, if it speaks to the average small business owner, we'll put it on the site. And that's part of the reason why you'll see a lot of different voices on the site, some you'll agree with some you won't agree with. But that's that's the concept behind that is that we want to give small business owner access to multiple different messages and messengers that allow them to start to hear things that resonate for them. We've just launched at the end of last month, our first online course. And again, bass back to basics, the name of the course is will I be able to sell my small business designed exclusively to answer that question for the small business owner. And when I say small, and I really mean small, I don't mean the like I said, the 20 million this or the 50 million that. I mean, the the guy, the plumber, who's got four guys, I mean, the the salon owner that's got, you know, three chairs, it's what is it mean? And will you be able to sell that business? And what are the basics,

stripped down of what a business you can sell looks like. And so then from that, we do coaching, and that is, again, designed for the truly small business owner. And that is something where we become that voice of conversation. For that small business owner on a monthly basis. We're not We're not consultants, we're not going to spend 40 hours a month with that small business owner, what we are is that voice that says, Okay, you want out in 18 months, let's talk pragmatically about what it takes to get to the place where when you finally reach out to the broker when you finally pick up the phone and call add it because you're ready to get going. What what does the business need to look like to give you the best chance to sell that business as possible? You know, and I think that's, that's so great that you're doing that and because you know what the risks are so much higher with, with those people, they need that exit, they need that business to be converted to cash, so they can do whatever, whether it be retirement or whatever's next. But I can assure you it is it is. It is certainly more important than then I don't. And I don't mean to minimize the the lower middle market, but you know, those guys, the smaller the business, the greater the risk, and hey, they're gonna get 10 instead of 12 million because and I'm there with you, I mean more power to him, you've built that successful business, you deserve a successful exit. You and I have both sat across the table and seen the tears as the business owner starts to realize that not only aren't they going to get the house in Florida, but their retirement plans have just blown up in their face. Because this assumption that they had about their ability to exit that business the assumption they had about value that was based on something that isn't real. I I am a huge believer in informed choice. I have no problem with the small business owner who comes to that, you know, who says, Listen, I'm gonna drive this train until it goes off the tracks right? If you want to be a business owner into your 80s Fabulous

if you're doing that because you didn't know that you didn't have a business that you can sell. To me that's devastating and

Ed Mysogland  25:00  
That's, that's what we're hoping to help. It is an under it's certainly an underserved area. And and like I said, when, and that's what, that's what we've tried to do in our practice is get far enough in front and just say, Look, you know, it does us, neither of us any good to take it to the market, if you're not ready, and I know you're looking for the needle in the needle stack, it's just not there. And

Mike Finger  25:26  
so what do you do? I mean, how do you sell medicine to people who don't know they're sick?

Ed Mysogland  25:34  
Well, the first for us, B, we do some, the self assessment. So we're, we do value builder, the value builder shop, and you know, what this isn't? Those aren't my answers, those are your answers. And, you know, that, that addresses or at least gets the ball rolling, as far as thought goes, we then move into, alright, let's talk about value. Let's sit down and, and let's dig into the value will either do a limited scope valuation, or, you know, we can we can get, we can get pretty deep into it, most of them, you know, choose not to, but we get into the valuation, and we look and we say, Alright,

here's the landscape of all the companies that are selling just like yours.

Here's the attributes that you have, let's compare them to what's selling now. You have any questions? And so we start down that path. And now all of a sudden, it's like, Oh, I understand that my cash flow ratio is only 5%. And all these other companies are wanting 25%. That doesn't mean they didn't sell, they just didn't get a premium. So now, what are you going to do? And then, you know, and then we back. After we do the valuation, we have the number lit. Alright, let's back into this. Got it. answer three questions. Can I pay myself? Can I pay my debt? Can I get a return of and more importantly, on my investment, you can answer those three things. We got the puzzle, the pieces of the puzzle put together now. We need to address some of the other

marketability challenges. We understand the X's and O's now it's actually someone that's going to write a check. That's, that's how we do it. Yeah.

Mike Finger  27:24  
Absolutely. And it makes perfect sense.

Part of what we are struggling with, and what are we knew our challenge would be from, from the very beginning with that market is that we have to figure out how to penetrate and get attention on this topic. Before someone reaches, I'm ready to sell.

Because when you reach, I'm ready to sell. I know for myself, personally, I reached I'm ready to sell on my first business. And I was about four years away from being sellable. And that was an incredibly hard four years and almost didn't make it I can't count how many times and you and I both night, and that was a choice. I mean, I wasn't that I want to sell or I need to sell because I got sick, I wasn't there because I got you know, if some external influence that forces a sale, I was lucky enough to just have gotten mentally to the place where I was starting to burn out, but was able to find the energy to move forward. So finding a way to penetrate into that space. That's, I mean, that's part of the reason why we've been pushing our content out there with you, we've tried to be entertaining and engaging and create some some content around this topic that maybe competes a little bit with

Ed Mysogland  28:49  
the fact that I can binge watch strangers, I hear you and I'll tell you the other thing, that and the other thing that I like and and like say we're kind of cut from the same cloth is that book, you know, some of our predecessors. Now, they used Exit Planning as lead gen. And we talked, we touched on it earlier. And I think the business owner is reluctant to say, You know what, maybe these guys are different. You know, and I don't know what your your sales cycle is, but I know ours is considerably longer now. And you know what, get to know us don't hop on our webinar, listen to this podcast. Do you know there's plenty of hay out there there there truly is. And if I don't care if you go to us, but at least I mean I do to a certain extent but but there's there's plenty of practitioners out there. And just understanding that have to be prepared and I don't get like said I don't care if you use us but you do need to you need for the sake of your family, your employees. And for everything else in the business. You need to take the opportunity to

Mike Finger  30:00  
Prepare to prepare it because you're gonna get punched in the face if you don't. Oh, amen. Amen. Ed, let me ask you a question about that. Do you think most small business owners haven't asked the question? Or do they? Do you think most small business owners think they know the answer is yes, I will be able to they've been they've been rockin now their business for now, since they since they started or bought it or however and,

Ed Mysogland  30:30  
you know, who are you? You're an outsider, you don't know more about my business than me how I can assure you know, who the hell wouldn't want this business? I mean, look at it. I mean, I understand, you know, you know, I haven't, you know, put bought the new lady that I should have bought. But you know what, who wouldn't want this? I mean, I can't tell you. I have one guy said, Yeah, I got a stack.

At I have a stack of letters from brokers all around the country telling me that they have a buyer for this business.

Mike Finger  31:02  
I know you're kidding. And so, so yeah, there's there's that is so funny. I've read in fact, I wrote an article that was called Run and hide the business brokers are coming because of that very thing. I, I think that creates an incredibly destructive dynamic for the small business owner. Because they figure

I must be worth chasing if people are chasing me. Right? I must be able to sell if the broker wants to talk to me only to discover when I talked to brokers, and I asked him, that's one of the first questions I asked you to brokers. Okay, if you talk to 10 small business owners, what percentage of those businesses are real prospects for you? After you left you hear the numbers? 10% is the most common answer. Right. And that's, that's right. And I got you have that, I think is is a destructive,

Ed Mysogland  31:59  
is a misleading, but it because they're years ago, it used to be 80% of the people that call on a particular business never bought that particular business.

So, so theoretically, I mean, it's not misleading, you know, but I just, I think there's a better way to educate the business owner. And that's, you know, the work that you're doing the work we're doing here.

But I'll tell you the other thing that and

it'll make you cringe, but, you know, the those folks that are going to seminars and showing up a rat stroking a $40,000 check so they can get their business value? I don't know. Have you run across that and up your way? I haven't. I haven't. Yeah. So there's a there's a company that that goes out holy buckets at heart, I'm in the wrong business? How do I get some of that you haven't had the opportunity to unwind it? And I'll because, well, because I mean, I mean, you come out or come out of one of these seminars, and you are stoked that, you know, every single person on this planet is going to want is going to want my business. And it's just not it's just not that way. And they I mean, it is, I'll send you, I'll send you the stuff. It's, it's, oh, my I'm pleased to sit there and go. And and now that that's a challenge and the model used to be, and this is going 20 years plus, you know, they would have affiliates. And they would you know, they've been traveling show they would they would do this in different markets. And then they would find shops like ours to to actually do the sale. And then the first thing out of our mouths is yeah, that valuation, we'd have to unwind everything that No, it just doesn't work that way. It your billion dollar purchase price is not going to Command A, you know, a 10 Multiple, just, that just doesn't happen. So, yeah.

So where do you think value is created? Employees are the owner.

Mike Finger  34:03  
I think the owner creates the business. And I think the business creates the value. I think the

is that thing that I can transfer to someone else where the value resides. But I'm a firm believer that the owner is the one that sits in the chair. They make the decisions, they decide how to engage the variables. So I don't know who makes the music the conductor or the orchestra. Right. I mean, it's it's a little bit of both. But I think the I think ultimately it's the owner's responsibility to engage this question. I think, personally, I think that's where the biggest challenge is, and I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what I was going to tell people the one thing is right, what is the one thing that that creates a business that you can sell, and I am convinced that I've discovered what

that that one thing is that and that's the, that is a business owner with the intent to create a business that they can sell.

It is the intent. They don't have to do it perfectly. They don't have to they there's 100 different programs or 400 different books are, there are a lot. But if they start with the intent to say, I want to create a business that I can get out of some day successfully, well, then they can ask the next question, which is, you know, what does that business look like? And what are the characteristics and all of those things, but all of that comes after intent. And so what creates value, what creates value as an owner with intent? That's interesting. I, and I'm certain you plow into the same business owners that you know, they're making a couple $100,000 and say, Alright, you make the transition from lifestyle to investment, right, this is you move from the lifestyle business into that this is an income producing asset. And when they're faced with that,

Ed Mysogland  36:06  
they can't pull the trigger that no one I like this 200 grand a lot better than taking this 100 grand and give it to somebody to run the business. So how do you get around that?

Mike Finger  36:17  
Yeah, I don't, I don't know, do I, I'm reminded of a small business I was looking to buy, it was actually a small coin laundromat. And, you know, I had a conversation, I had always active conversation with probably a dozen different business owners at that time as a potential buyer. And, you know, this guy, and I got a little further down the path than most and but he finally said, I don't, I don't think I'm ready to sell. And I and I, we had had a we built enough of a relationship where I said, Well, what, tell me what, what's the thing, what's keeping you from doing and he said, I don't think I'm ready to give up the buckets of quarters yet, I made it came down to that basic of a feeling he got when he was doing that was worth more than any value that we were talking about at the time. And that was clearly not something I was ever going to overcome. And again, I have the luxury in the space that I work in.

That I genuinely don't care if someone sells their business. I don't know success for me, I don't get paid based on commission, we don't we don't make money if you choose to. If you change your mind at the last minute, there's no skin off exit Oasis is nose, what we want to do is make sure that you're building a business, that you're creating the structures and the systems that allow you to make the choices that you want to make. And if that choice is because you and I both know that a business that's easy to sell is a pretty nice business to own. Right, because it's not dependent on me and it produces some cash flow and all of these things start to stack up and you know what you want to keep that sucker for the next 15 years fabulous, but keep it and maintain it in a way that when you change your mind 18 months from now, you're a phone call to the broker, not three years of financial returns and then a phone call to the broker. So I lifestyle versus investment. I don't know. I mean, my business was dramatically more profitable when we sold it than when I was at that stage four years earlier when I realized it was unsellable. But I don't know if I personally ever got into the make this an investment place that it was what it was it was a lifestyle business that provided a good potential lifestyle for an owner. And while that may not be as sellable as the investment based business sure it's still

so to me the wall is sellable versus unsellable. And once we get crawl over that sell ability wall now. Now there's choices and a lot of legitimate different directions and owner can can do that. That's fabulous. And I

Unknown Speaker  39:09  
thought about that but but you articulated really well that that wall that you know it sellable versus unsellable is is superior to owner operated versus investment. Yeah. Yeah. And the hard part. You tell me what percentage of small businesses in operation today are on the sellable side versus the unsellable side of that wall?

Mike Finger  39:39  
I've got a gut gut feel. I mean, my numbers I put out are 80%. Right, because we make up numbers in this industry. So

Ed Mysogland  39:50  
I think

the part that skews it for me, and again, I see the same statistics students, and I believe that

Mike Finger  40:01  
Those are the ones that are reported from brokers. Alright, so I'm just curious to know, what is that group that did not use professional representation? What's what's Are they more sellable than going to a broker? You know what I mean that you come to a broker? Because you haven't, you've shopped it yourself and you couldn't do it. Now you're looking for a different market that you probably don't have access to. Could be the, you know, the quiet sales that happen, that we don't hear about? Who, who knows, right? I mean, it is, those numbers don't get reported, they'll never get reported. But I've never talked to anyone into in the industry that feels that those unreported numbers are sufficient enough that the small business owners should be up optimistic about their opportunity to sell. Right, I think this is this is a negative

seven negative wave coming at ya, hey, this the Yeah, that that that's my struggle, as I, as we alluded to earlier, I think there's too many small business owners out there that are defaulting to the belief that their small business must be sellable, because it's 20 years old, it must be sellable, because they survived when so many others failed. All of these very important, satisfying,

vital results that don't create the businesses themselves. Well, I'll tell you I, so I reached out to the Internal Revenue Service, and I, and I have not gotten a response back, because I wanted to see. So with each with each business sale, you have your allocation of purchase price, 8594. So that form gets reported somebody, I'm just curious to know whether or not that would lead me to the water of how many sales are and if I end up, I do get a response. Because this has been bashed six months, I've been waiting. And so anyway, if I, if I get some better stats, I'll send them your way. Please do because I mean, we both know we're going to see the quarterly stats come out from biz buy, sell about the number of, of small businesses that sell right. And if it's a good, if it's a good quarter, they're going to say something like, sales are up and 30% over last year. And every broker that's out there is going to use that as a plug for sales are up 30%, now's the time to sell your business. And then we're going to look at the numbers. And we're going to see that biz by sells numbers went from 1200 to you know, 12 175. And you do the math on that. And that's like point 000 2% of the small businesses that are out there. I hope the odds are better than that, man, I'm worthy. Since I want to be sensitive to our time. So. So one piece of advice to give our listeners before that will make the most immediate impact on the business. The I know, you talked about the wall. Is there anything else? Yeah, well, I mean, if I'm talking to a small business owner, and I know they're going their own way.

On this topic here, here's my recommendation, half an hour a month, put something in your calendar,

schedule it and have it repeat something that forces you to take and pay attention to this topic. That is the single most critical financial transaction that you will have as a small business owner, odds are you're not going to pay attention to it until you're ready to sell. Do yourself a favor, get your business ready to sell before you're ready to sell. And you do that by giving conscious engagement to this topic on a regular basis doesn't have to be hours doesn't have to be every day or every week. But every month, put a half an hour on your calendar, read an article. Take a look at the newsletter do something to engage the topic. Yeah, what's the best way we can connect with you? I know exit oasis.com I will put in the show notes, the link to your newsletter as well as the link to your course anyplace else that you're hanging out. That's where I started it will keep it basic. We'll keep the content clear. We don't we're not selling your stuff there.

The sign up for the newsletter is going to get a copy of our free ebook.

Engage the topic if we can help you do that great if if if you find someone else's content that's on our site, and they speak more clearly to you know, chase after them. Engage this topic find a way

Ed Mysogland  44:51  
to do yourself the favor of thinking about your future. Now man yet, like I said earlier, I was looking forward to it and you delivered exactly what

I had hoped you would and I and I'm so grateful for the time it's I hope this is the first of many conversations we get to have would be my pleasure at I enjoyed it. All right, buddy. Well, cheers.