EP 50: How Equipment Value Contributes to Overall Business Valuation with Tim Roy

Ed Mysogland  00:00

Welcome to another episode of how to sell a business podcast, where I interview buyers, sellers, advisors, and everyone that surrounds a business owner on how to create what creates value in a business and then ultimately how to sell the business. And so today, I have my first two time guest his name's Tim Roy of capital analytics, and I'll put his bio in the in the show notes. But he's an equipment appraiser. And I've gotten to know him over the years as an employee of capital analytics, now he he had his own acquisition, and now he is the owner of Capitol analytics. But what his claim to fame is, is being one of those equipment, appraisers that you are really grateful that you know, he's articulate, he's thorough, he's honest. And he's one of those guys that that, you know, just does a good job. He he knows some of the people I've referred and he probably doesn't know, some that I also refer to him. And he is on the short, the short shortlist. And I can tell you that every single person that I've ever introduced him to have come back and have been fortunate to have had him work on on their jobs. He's such an easy referral. And I know, it sounds like I'm making a pitch for the guy. But I'm telling you, I I'm in this space. And I see there's a big difference between equipment appraisers, and I can tell you that he is absolutely top notch. He was like I said guest on episode number 50. And he's now on on episode 80. So I hope you enjoy and I'm certain you will my interview with Tim Roy of capital analytics. Welcome to my first time, my first two time guest Tim ROI. Tim Welcome.

Tim Roy  02:35

I am How are you doing? It's great to be back.

Ed Mysogland  02:39

I'm great. I'm so I'm so excited that you're here. So you were on episode number 50. And we'll we'll link that in the show notes. But for those for those that don't know you on Episode 50, you were you were an employee, a key employee and now that you're a business owner, so why don't you talk a little bit about capital analytics and, and just your own acquisition? Yeah, thanks.

Tim Roy  03:08

So we're a small business advisory and valuation firm based in Indianapolis, small and mid market businesses kind of our target. We work for a lot of professional advisors, attorneys, accountants, bankers. We have business valuation, we have equipment appraisal, those are our two main areas of focus. We have some great partners on the business valuation side. And then myself and my associate, we do the equipment appraisals. And yeah, I've been in this business for a while. We were owned by an absentee wealthy gentleman who started us kind of out of the blue several years ago, and it sort of came time to transition. And I hear you talk in this podcast a lot about key employee retention. Well, when you're in a firm of only three to five people, every employee is a key employee. So when everyone kind of comes together at the same time, it says it's time to make a change. Our owner was wise enough to understand that it was time time to transition. So we as a small professional practice, there wasn't a lot of business value beyond the immediate relationships. And you know, we don't have any production contracts. Every assignment is a one off deal. So there's no guaranteed earnings. Expenses are fairly minimal beyond salaries. So we worked out a revenue share with the owner and it's it's somewhat a form of seller financing. The options for me as a buyer where I could either go take out personal loans and make a cash offer. My wife was not crazy about that. We wanted to buy a home I have other things going on and the interest rates on personal loans are not exciting. The other thing is that we could work out early When you share agreement, and we came to terms that we thought were acceptable, and the owner gladly took them, and we worked out a fair amicable deal, and there was a lot of a lot of support back and forth dealing with open accounts dealing with remaining expenses. But we got it all worked out. That was about a year ago. So I've been a year as a business owner. And it has been a very steep learning curve, a lot of nice, a lot of lost sleep. But once you get past the first few months, and figuring out everything you need to know, taxes, workforce development, QuickBooks, right, all these things, you never think of it. So it's a lot harder than you think. But it's enjoyable as well.

Ed Mysogland  05:47

You know, that's, that's funny, you say that, because a number of people say the same thing. The acquisition was super easy. Being a business owner, that's, that's when it becomes pretty hard. So but again, congratulations, that's that, that is such a big win for for, for not only you but for for the people you serve, because I know that you know, you're expanding your offerings, you're, you've always done great work, but at the same time, now you now you can kind of control the throttle. So I'm real, I'm real excited to see what, what what you look like, on the third time you come on to

Tim Roy  06:21

probably have a lot greater hair.

Ed Mysogland  06:25

Yeah, well, it's not all what it's cracked up to be. Alright, so there's a few things I want to talk to you about one, you know, so now we're in 2023. And interest rates are up, we got inflation up. And and we're, I'm just curious to know, what is the state of equipment, you know, what, I have to assume values are going down? I'm curious to know what liquidation values are or are doing. And I know, I'm kind of giving you all my talking points. But as an overview, I'm trying to figure out, you know, is fair market value the same as orderly liquidation in today's environment, you know, have those has that there used to be a gap, there may not be anymore. So anyway, fire away what's happening in 23? Well,

Tim Roy  07:15

we always have to talk about equipment, two categories, you have mobile equipment, which is like construction, agriculture, trucks, and trailers, rental fleets, scissor lifts, all of that kind of stuff that you can pick up and move. And then you have installed equipment, manufacturing, processing, packaging, things you can't pick up and move. So mobile equipment kind of follows the same trends you see in vehicles. So during the pandemic, there became supply chain disruptions there became shortages, used value skyrocketed. A two year old tractor was selling for more today than the manufacturing suggested price of a new tractor. Right. And these things are happening all the way through the end of last year. And that's because the cost of buying a new tractor was not just $500,000. It was $500,000 plus a 12. month wait time. Right? Well, that's one season of planting and harvesting. So if you could buy a used tractor right now and playing harvest with it, that was worth more to you, right? So these are things that we all saw happening with pickup trucks, right? Well, it was happening with all kinds of mobile equipment. Those markets have leveled off. They have not come down necessarily, they have leveled off at a higher state. So we had a lot of crazy inflation. The supply chains are not bad. But wait, wait, where they were going? Yeah,

Ed Mysogland  08:38

that's, that's where I was going with it is. So why is it leveled up?

Tim Roy  08:43

Well, it's leveled off because interest rates are up, right, you know that it's not as easy to borrow money to buy things, right. So for a buyer, they have to start thinking about what am I getting myself into as far as financing agreements? And what are the costs of maintaining these agreements over the next three to five years as I pay off this semi truck or this bulldozer? Second of all, I think there's just a lot of hesitancy in the market. In general, people aren't sure about interest rates, people aren't sure about financing, people aren't sure about a recession. So that reduces demand for new construction and things like that also reduces demand for equipment just along with it. And supply chains have started to come around a little bit, right? People are able to get a new bulldozer with a six month lead time instead of an 18 month lead time, right? So you start to be willing to wait and get the new one with all the warranties and the packages. And so us ones start to drop relative to new costs. So things have not dropped and I'm not sure if we're when they're gonna drop but they are not increasing anymore. Things are kind of just leveled out right now.

Ed Mysogland  09:54

Okay, so, you said there are two two different different camps. types of equipment, sir. One is what you just described, what's the second one?

Tim Roy  10:03

So installed equipment is very industry specific. We all have heard about the onshoring, or the reshoring of manufacturing. Over the last, you know, 10 years or so, following the last recession, the tier one suppliers and the major manufacturers wanted more control over their supply lines. And so our last three presidents have bragged endlessly about how many jobs they're bringing back from overseas. And it's been true the offshoring of the manufacturing supply chain is a real trend that's been going on since 2011. So we're looking at 12 years of people bringing jobs back from overseas. Well, when you trickle down to the tier three and four suppliers, the kind of people who are customers for you and I, what that means is that they have a lot of work if you're a metalworking manufacturing, things that might feed into a major manufacturer, maybe you're making parts, or you're doing maintenance or service, you've had plenty of business. And so those types of I would say general manufacturing type industries, fabrication, machining, aerospace, defense, anything in the automotive or the heavy machinery supply chain, and they've had plenty of work. So that equipment has been in demand, it's been hard to get new machines, it's been hard to get controls for those machines, you know, they use computer chips, just like the pickup trucks that we heard so much about. So that type of equipment has been very strong and remains strong. But if you're in a niche industry, let's say you're in pharmaceutical packaging, you know, these trends have a lot to do with factors that are there outside of anything to do with the supply chain. You know, there are big industry trends in every little, every little commercial industry that affect the value of the equipment that's used in that industry. You know, cannabis manufacturing is legal today, it's illegal tomorrow, right? Some medical manufacturing process, some some medical manufacture, they're making a product that's approved by the FDA, the FDA today, and then tomorrow, it's not approved, right. So every little niche business and industry is sort of on their own swing chain, it doesn't always have anything to do with COVID. Some went up someone down, if you were in big event staging, and you had a $5 million package of audiovisual equipment. Well, that became worthless in late 2020. And now if you're the only man left standing, the only the only business left standing, well, now all of a sudden, you got a lot of value, because you're the only one to ask us a question.

Ed Mysogland  12:47

It's It's funny, you say that, because we're I mean, we're three, three and a half years into an engagement, and we're gonna get it done. I mean, they've somehow managed to somehow managed to get it done. You know, just stay stay, stay afloat, and, you know, good on them. So it's so yeah, that's a that's a big win. I and I interrupted you yet again, I have a habit of doing that.

Tim Roy  13:20

If you don't interrupt, so

Ed Mysogland  13:21

you're not so? Well, fair enough. So, the the so on the tears, three and four. All right, those those types of business businesses, when, you know, I've always said, you know, if you want to close your business, there's nothing wrong with that, as long as the people, you know, that are important to you know, that that's kind of your exit strategy. I mean, is there is there market for for their equipment, you know, what I mean? That, that, all right, things go bad, and from the buyer side to, you know, that, that maybe they, you know, you see what collateral value is and how much the bank's gonna give you, you know, on a on a per dollar basis. But what's the, if I have to start selling some of my equipment to to keep afloat because things have gone bad? What, what's the absorption or is that too broad of a question?

Tim Roy  14:21

Well, it's a broad question, but there are some factors that are universal. Number one, how utilitarian is it right? If you have a CNC lathe that has modern controls, and this is from a big brand, like Haas that every machinery operator coming out of Ivy Tech knows how to operate a Haas machine, right? That's a commodity type asset. You can pick it up with a forklift, you can rig it out of your building, you can put it on a flatbed, you can drop it into another shop in almost any industry, and they can use that right. So that's the kind of asset that has liquid paint. So if a new won't cost $500,000, you'll be able to sell that over the next seven to 10 years for a reasonable fraction, you know, a couple 100 grand, it's got value, right? It's not gonna bring as much as a new one. But it's not a boat anchor either. Now, when you're talking about things that are highly customized and installed, if you're in a, you know, let's say you're doing some sort of chemical processing, or let's say you're doing finishing for metal work, that's a very common operation. Let's say you have a dip tank line, these tanks are full of chemicals, and you dip metal parts in them, and you apply an electric current, and it produces a finish that goes on these parts. Well, these are highly installed processes, highly corrosive materials. It's kind of a custom modular package of assets, the chances of finding any other buyer who's going to want that same package of assets is very minimal. And in those situations, liquidations are ugly. You basically sell off the few, you know, biggest nicest things for a fraction of the replacement cost, and then everything else is pennies on the dollar

Ed Mysogland  16:16

the the business owners you know, we're seeing so much SBA, SBA got so aggressive right now. And it seems as though equipment is I don't say immaterial, but it's more cashflow lenders, right. And if the cash flows there, now, who cares what the equipment looks like? You know, it's nice to know, here's our collateral, but I guess where I was heading with it is, is that a good thing? i To me it? I mean, in my space? That's a great thing, you know, that that, that you're lending off a cash flow? But I'm just curious to know, downstream three, five years, you know, what do you do with that equipment? I mean, does will it retain its value? And I know, that's specific to the particular type of industry? But I guess, because at some point, you see this stuff? And I'm just curious to know, what, you know, what's your thoughts on that? That's a I know, that's a big, red, even more broad than the last one last question. But, I mean, what's your what's your thoughts on that? I mean, because, remember, people are getting people are buying these businesses. And here's the scenario that that always troubles me that you have an aging owner, who starts kind of they're in their head, they start planning and you you talked about this in several of our talking points, about the cap about capex, you know that, and I'm looking at it that, you know, what, they stopped doing the thing, they stop investing in equipment. Alright. And so the the deterioration, I don't know if it accelerates, but it certainly doesn't improve. And then the buyer comes in and buys it, the cash flow lender has, you know, it's just cash flow. And here's the list of assets. I'm just curious to know what happens at the end of that, you know, yeah.

Tim Roy  18:23

Well, you know, when a lender goes to an appraiser, and they ask for a value of anything, could be real estate could be equipment, you know, that's as of today. Right? And then it's the lenders job, to first of all, pay attention to what it actually says in your appraisal report, you know, a good appraiser will give you kind of a run out. And this is what you're looking at in the near term. Right. So when we do it an inspection of a facility, we'll put a little page of narrative in our report that says, here's what you're looking at, in the next three to five years, here's what's going to be retired, here's what your value is going to look like. It's not an official opinion, but it's just sort of a some context for the lender. And the lender is also discount, you know, they only loan a certain percentage against the actual value. So the idea being that look, in the next five years or seven years, whatever the length of this collateral loan is, we understand as lenders that the value of this equipment will drop. And we're going to make some wise decisions to make sure we don't have a value gap anywhere here where the market value of the equipment is going to be less than what's owed on it. Right? Sure. Not saying that doesn't happen. I'm not saying it doesn't happen all the time. Many lenders do not want our extra opinions and they want to know what the value is today. And then they want to go package the deal. No, no, they want to sell it and they don't they do not want to know what's going to happen.

Ed Mysogland  19:51

That's funny you say that because that was exactly where I was going with it that you know it. You know, I may I've told you this years ago, you know, in, in a lot of our business appraisals, we would get, you know, we would do these extensive reports and, and they were, you know, an inch thick. And like every other appraisers, appraisal, you know, someone goes to the first page of the last page, no one reads any of it. So I embedded in, in, in, in the body of the of the report, you know, if if you read this, I'll give you $100 Cash, just call me, here's my number. And no one no one ever called me. And so I knew no one was reading it. And so my point is to circle back, I think it's just a checkbox for so many and and I fear for the buyer that the capex is so much greater, as a result of that, you know what

Tim Roy  20:52

I mean? Yeah, I think that the future capex and an SBA situation, in particular, with an owner operator, who, as you always say, in the show, they're buying themselves a job or a lifestyle, and they just want to know if the business will cash flow on the death. And they go to a big box lender, and they don't have a lot of diligence, and they don't have a lot of good advice. And they will basically look at the market value of the equipment today. And they'll say, Well, that's gonna pay for the collateral financing. And I'm gonna make enough earnings to pay for that. And that's all I care about. And yes, those are high production deals that happen every day of the week. And, you know, as those of us in the professional advisor, world, guys, like you and I, we just have to, we do our job, we say our piece, and if they, if they choose not to listen, then I guess there's not much we can do about that we make sure it's written down. So when they come back and complain, we can point to page four and say, you read page four, it's in big letters.

Ed Mysogland  21:56

I get it. Like I said, it's just, you start to think about all of the all of we're seeing so much, so much more buyer activity from from, you know, eta entrepreneurship through acquisition, and we're seeing kind of an influx of buyers. But at the same time, you know, when you when you have such a large debt structure on that business, you know, you start to wonder, how are they going to get more money when they need it? You know, they're getting it on the front end, you know, banks going to under under provide, you know, under working capital, there's, you know, they're gonna do just the opposite. But I think, you know, as we talk about, you know, being business owners, you get in there, and you're not really until you're in there, you don't, you really don't know, you can see it on paper before. But once you're in there now, now, all of a sudden, you see, you know, things that are perhaps, you know, coming down coming down the pike, and then you have the issue, like you're talking about that if recession or economic downturn or whatever you want to term it. You know, this elongates for any period of time, and you have a supply chain issue. Yeah, we've got that. We've got some new problems. Yeah. So anyway. Yeah. Well, thanks for your commentary on that. I know, I kind of threw that one on you. But I did want to talk a little bit about, you know, for the remaining time of how do you prepare your asset base for sale? Because most people don't understand. And I was writing about this, you know, a few weeks back about, you know, it's one thing to clean up your facilities, you know, and you don't want to, you know, it's clean. It's, it looks like it's well cared for? Let's, let's take some time and talk about what do we do about the equipment? Sure, you know, and because, from your perspective as an appraiser that makes a material difference, right?

Tim Roy  24:06

Absolutely. I mean, on this show, you guys always talk about you and your guests talk about how it's all about the earnings or earnings creates value. But the earnings only tell you what has been there. And then the seller has to sort of convince the buyer that look, I've paved this long road for you this long runway, where you can continue operations and continue these earnings. I've retained key management. I've got a workforce that's trained up and they're not all about to retire. I've got key contracts, I've got production contracts, I've got supply chain set, I've got customer retention. Well if you're an equipment intensive business, part of that same conversation is you can continue to earn at the same level with the current package of equipment. And I've got predictable operating expenses topics. I've got predictable capital expenses, capex And you know what you're getting into, and they're not going to be any surprises. So the biggest thing you can do is organize predictable earnings and really pave that runway for the buyer to envision continued success with your current package of assets.

Ed Mysogland  25:20

Got it? But when you when you when you're climbing over these machines, all right, you know, when you have a 50 year old piece of equipment that that has been, you know, you know, retooled and is in a in a state where it has much more economic life. I mean, it's beat up, you know, I'm just, I'm just curious to know. Does physical appearance, make a difference? And I think you said yes, earlier. But you know, how much of you know, does it contribute to value or does it, it just, it just gives you a sense that you know, what this this thing has been cared for in the preventative maintenance, I'm, it just further assures me that the preventative maintenance has been handled? Well, I think everything's,

Tim Roy  26:13

everything works together. And if you're selling an equipment intensive business, you know, we are envisioning kind of a small Mac manufacturing facility here. It's not just the physical appearance, the physical appearance is important, right, you need to treat this asset like investment it is, if you have a 50 year old stamping press, you know, to replace this thing is going to cost someone a million dollars, right? You need to treat it like a million dollar investment. Right, you would not have a million dollars sitting with your financial advisor in stocks and bonds and have no clue where it's at how much it's earning you what the maintenance fees are, you know, you wouldn't want to know about this, I can't tell you how many business owners have a million dollar stamping press. But because it's been paid off, they just quit paying attention to it. And they have no clue. And they can't tell potential buyers. This is what my annual operating expenses are, these are all of the things I have done to keep this thing operating to make sure it operates for the next five years without a lot of hassles. This is what it will cost if you want to automate part of this process, if you want to put a robot on it, if you want to replace it. And here's the potential benefit of that. So if the physical appearance is important, put a coat of paint on it. Right, clean up the leaks, make sure that things tip top shape, get the modern controls on it. But it's that in combination with the paperwork, here are the OP x, here's potential capex, it all goes together and it gives the buyer confidence.

Ed Mysogland  27:51

No, you're right. So when you one thing you said is, you know, here's here's some additional capacity, you know, you know, if you do this, and the typical buyer response is, okay, well, why didn't you Sure? And, and so it it kind of Alice, it's kind of a little bit of a landmine, you know, where they're, they're like, Oh, crap, now I got now now I have to explain why, you know, I'm asking this price for the business. I didn't do you know, and I'm waving the flag that you can do so much more with it. And they're saying, Well, then why didn't you? So I don't know how I what I want what I want you to answer, but I do. If you got some guidance on that, that'd be great. Well,

Tim Roy  28:42

you do talk about this a lot. You always say you know, don't quit running your business. You always say expect your broker will fail, right? Keep running your business, keep up on things run the same hand. You know, if you're going to sell your house next year, you don't necessarily undertake $100,000 remodel either, right? Because what if the new buyer comes in and doesn't like your countertops? Well, now you just wasted all this money? Well, it's so different with your assets. So let's say you want to automate the stamping press. And you're going to put a robot in and it's going to save you some labor. But let's say the labor payoff is a is a five year payoff. Well, if you're going to sell your business next year, is it necessarily wise to make this investment when the buyer might come in, and they may have wanted a different process, or they may have chosen a different type of automation. So it's wise to be as efficient as you can, with your current process, make it clear to your buyer, this machine, this production line is earning you just as it is and I've made the investments to make sure that will continue. But I've also done some research. And I'm not asking you to pay me for your future Investment and Opportunity. But I want you to understand, if you want to extend the life of this, here's an investment that you can make. Here's the people you can talk to I've already looked into all this and Here's a potential cost potential benefit of that. It's not something that's gonna increase your value. But it's something that's going to give the buyer confidence. You know what you're doing, you've treated this with care.

Ed Mysogland  30:13

That's great point. No, so doesn't Aiden value but it does Aiden marketability? You know what you're, you're, you're an astute. You're an astute business owner, you, you know what you're doing? And, yeah, that's that that is a that's a that's a really good point that understanding the capabilities and, and, and giving that to the buyer is helpful know that? That's, that's a great point. My last question, which has to do with, you know, we're seeing more and more due diligence, right, more and more due diligence requests on the financial side, we're looking at quality of earnings. And we're seeing more with equipment. And so what it and again, this may be something that we that we have to put in the show notes. But is there a shortlist of due diligence items for equipment that, you know, and I kind of imagine it's the it's the things that you asked for your appraisal, but is there a kind of a list that, hey, if you have all of this, this is going to, you're going to get past due diligence on on the equipment package that you're selling?

Tim Roy  31:28

Well, like everything else, there's everything the buyer wants to know. And then there's everything the seller is actually prepared to provide, right? It's no different with your front end. So you know, the name of this podcast is how to sell a business, right? If you're the seller, you have to anticipate Information is power, the more that you can show that you're organized, the more that you can answer whatever checklists they have. So what I would think would be common, asks if you have some heavy equipment assets, is, you know, it doesn't have to be 15 year history, but you know, show me three years of operating expenses on this major process. How many man hours have been involved in this? How many labor hours? How many times have you had to call Texan? What are your annual? You know, if you're a defense manufacturer, you have a certain certification, what are the costs of having these machines inspected, and certified? What about the software packages, you know, your CFO and your maintenance lead, have got to be on the same page that we are going to track these expenses, and we're going to assign them right, the tracking system does not need to be expensive or complex, but your employees have to be bought in. If your accountant and your maintenance person are not on the same page. When you come to sell, you might as well have no information. Because the accountant has information over here. The maintenance tech has information over here. But if they don't match up, and if you can't assign them to your machines, that's worthless, right? So they have to really be bought in. Yeah. So that's your operating expenses. That's something a buyer's gonna want to know. And then of course, the other things are, you know, talk about, give me your capex plan. How much were you planning on spending on major repairs, overhauls, refurbishments, controls upgrades, if you're going to continue to run this business for three to five years, what were you going to spend, and how does that fit into the long term earnings picture. So again, be organized documents, that gives competence. And then you have more just the obvious things, you have somebody go in, somebody's going and kick the tires. Usually, if you're a buyer, if you're a strategic buyer, especially when you're already running a similar business, you're gonna have people on staff who are sort of experts at this type of equipment, and they're gonna go in, and they're gonna look at it, and they're gonna come back and say, you know, Geez, that I've worked for 20 years, I'm gonna tell you the truth that shops a lot nicer than ours is, or, and I'm gonna tell you the truth, their presses have real problems. And if you want to bring them up to our standard, we're gonna have to do XYZ, you can send in maintenance texts from the manufacturers. So if you're buying a CNC machine, you go to that your your sales rep, and you have a service call come out, and they go check out the equipment, and they can give you the costs of any recommended upgrades, repairs, maintenance items, you can ask what's your, what's your part inventory on hand, you know, what are the key parts that I'm gonna need to replace? And do you have those on hand already? Are those coming with the business or do I have to go buy those, right? So it's just really a lot of common sense things that when you when you own a business, run it for a long time. You just forget about tracking these things and you forget that somebody else wouldn't know all this. You have to have it all documented. Have it prepared. Give it to the buyer and give them confidence. All right.

Ed Mysogland  35:07

So my man, the as you as you know, my my last question is always the same. So what's the best piece of advice you could give the listeners that will have the greatest impact on their business or their businesses? saleability, what would it be? Well,

Tim Roy  35:25

this doesn't necessarily have to be an equipment intensive business, this could be any business with a physical presence. Anything from a small office to a large manufacturing facility? You know, your numbers are your numbers, right? And they come out in a printout. And everyone's kind of looked the same, don't they? They all look alike. Yeah, you're right, they all hit Ctrl p on QuickBooks. Right? Your facility is the physical representation of those numbers. This is the visual lens through which your buyers can view your financials. If you have two small businesses or mid sized businesses, and they both have the same financials. But one of them, you walk up to the stamping presses and it's got a new coat of paint, there's no grease around it. It's got a nice binder hanging on the side with all the maintenance invoices and all the numbers to call, and every upgrade that's ever been done to it, then you go to the next stamping shop has the exact same earnings. But the stamping press looks like it hasn't been painted since the Korean War. And you're standing in a pool of grease, and you can't find any of the paperwork. And yes, where the maintenance tech is he's outside, you know, smoking a cigarette, that business is going to appear less valuable to the buyer. Right, the buyer is going to have less confidence. They continue to operate and earn at the same level over the next several years. So just really remember that your visuals are on paper, or I'm sorry, your financials are on paper, but your facilities and visual, this is how you communicate to the buyer that those financials mean something.

Ed Mysogland  37:10

You know, I've known you a long time that that probably might, might be the the quote of the year. That's, that's, you're exactly right. I mean, I never looked at it that way. And I've been doing it for 30 years. That's a that's a great way to say it. So my friend. So where where can we find you?

Tim Roy  37:30

Well, you can always go to our website, capital analytics.com. And there's an eating capital. That's don't ask me why but it's too late to change it we already have the domain paid for. So you can find the link in the show notes. You can find me on LinkedIn. Like to put articles out in industry publications in the ASAE journal and banking magazines and we're always at the IBA show in Indianapolis. So you can go check us out there or you can just give us a call anytime if you have any questions. You know, we're not attorneys, we don't charge by the hour, we're happy to talk about any situations you have and see if we can give you some guidance or connect you with a better person if you have some specialty situation. So you're always welcome to reach out anytime.

Ed Mysogland  38:19

Nice. And for those of you that don't know the IBA is the Indiana Bankers Association. I believe that's in May. So we're in 2023. That's May I believe, 16 through 18 here in Indianapolis. So my friend, as always, thank you so much for for being so generous with with your time and coming on again. It's always it's always great to visit with you. So thanks so much for for taking the time, man.

Tim Roy  38:49

Thanks, Ed. It was great. And I'll look forward to continuing to hear the rest of the season. I learned a lot from you. I learned a lot from your show. So I'm always an avid listener and eager to listen to it.