EP 12: Greg Stanley - Secrets of Value Growth with the Right Revenue

Ed Mysogland  0:00  
I'm your host Ed Mysogland. I teach business owners how to identify and remove risks in their businesses so they can sell the business at maximum value when they want how they want and to whom they want. On today's show, I'm thrilled to welcome my friend Greg Stanley of accelerated consultants. Greg has had a successful career over 25 years in business and community leadership building practices sales and marketing teams and channel programs for support net Arrow Electronics PricewaterhouseCoopers and smart it before helping many clients across North America. While at PricewaterhouseCoopers, Greg helped build a technology security practice from the ground up before building a marketing and sales team for the Indiana Ohio Kentucky region that was not in existence prior to him taking the role of Managing Director of Sales and Marketing PricewaterhouseCoopers Greg served on a seven partner Leadership Council for the region and was responsible for revenue generation for a market with over 70 partners, and more than 700 staff, as well as a go to market strategy, development and execution for the market. Personally, Greg has served on boards of kids voice, JD RF, and the butler Business Consulting Group. And he currently serves as the chair of the lacy School of Business board of visitors at Butler University. So Greg, welcome to the show. 

Greg Stanley  2:48  
Thanks, Ed. It's a pleasure to join you. So I, I certainly gave a little bit about you. But tell us something that we should know that's not in your bio. Thanks. I think it's really important to note that while minimizing risk is the key components of enhancing valuation, but business shows the ability to capitalize on opportunity. In my experiences with small and midsize businesses. I saw a significant gap in many companies ability to build a revenue function that not only drives top line growth, but does so in a way that enhances valuation. I lost accelerant consultants two years ago to help the owners of these companies make their businesses more valuable by growing the right way, with a high level of discipline and intentionality. I mean, I guess when you when you launched accelerant, what did you What was the deficit that you saw in the marketplace that that prompted you to launch it? You know, it was interesting. What I saw was there are many business owners with great ideas that have propelled the business on their backs for a period of time, and then wanted to

Unknown Speaker  3:50  
enhance growth and scale by hiring a sales team or by developing a marketing program. Most of these business owners didn't come from a background of sales and marketing. They came from a background of technology or they came from a background of chemical engineering where they came from a background of orthotics and a healthcare, training and history. I would equate it to myself being a career person in sales and marketing, being put in charge of running a surgery center from a business operations perspective. And then asked to go in and go into a surgery room and and prepare and execute surgeries. I'm not qualified to do that. And many of these business owners while they had good business, intuition and good business sense, and never actually hired salespeople, they had never actually developed a commission program that didn't drive complacency and drove the right behaviors that don't valuation. They weren't necessarily organizational strategists. It was through sheer will and blood, sweat and tears that they propelled the business to where it was, and then the hiring process and the execution once they decided to go into their business and scale it Build a revenue function was not necessarily done in a way that was going to lead to success. And so it's I saw a significant market opportunity to help these small and medium sized business owners retool their their business processes, retool their revenue functions, and really take some best practices from both smaller and larger companies, incorporate those into their businesses and hopefully do so in a way that maximizes valuation for them.

Ed Mysogland  5:27  
Yeah, when, when, when I'm working with business owners, and we're talking about value, and especially value gaps, so my, my opinion versus, versus there's, there's a difference. And when they when, immediately when we talk about increasing value, they focus on revenue. But I know that increasing revenue is understating the challenge in front of them. You know, can you talk a little bit more about your holistic view of increasing revenue, and the likely deficiencies that are typically omitted when deploying that kind of strategy?

It's interesting, because many of these businesses that I go in as well, they say things are going great, I grew from 8 million to 10 million to 13 million to 70 million over the last four years. And what could be better, top line growth looks great. However, because they only focus on top line growth, if things like profitability, customer retention and expansion, those types of things aren't keeping pace, the business might actually become bigger from a top line revenue perspective, but worth less than the market, because they're not keeping pace with what is expected from an industry standard perspective, relative to driving revenue. They also don't consider necessarily things like revenue distribution, which I know your firm looks at pretty heavily as well as you're going to devaluation perspective, if you grow from 8 million to 70 million on the backs of to customers. When you talk about mitigating risk, there's a high degree of risk that if one of those customers were leave, a significant amount of the revenue goes away, and therefore you're going to see a discount from a valuation perspective.

Yeah, and I think they I think a lot of business owners just under estimate that, you know, revenue, revenue is good, but it costs money to generate that revenue. It's not, you know, and I think that's one of the beauties of of your practice is that you're looking at it from a 360 degree view of it, we're going to increase revenue by X percent. Well, what does this do throughout the organization, not only from staffing, but also from, from operationally speaking, what I was alluding to is that it costs money to increase revenue. And I think business owners just just assume, well, I'm just gonna keep doing more of what I'm doing. Well, that doesn't always equate to value increasing. Now, if you're able to optimize your, your operating expenses. That's, that's, that's where when you can pick up to three points on your profit margin, that's, there's more of the gravy is? No,

Greg Stanley  8:03  
you're absolutely right. And I think that it is a lot of a function of just the maturity cycle of a business. And in a lot of cases, businesses start out and are founded based on the premise of, I'm gonna make payroll. And in order to make payroll, I've got to do stuff for money. And they tend to delude themselves. And they tend to, to chase the next shiny object and be willing to do effectively anything for money, as long as it brings top line revenue in the door. As businesses mature, to your point, they really shouldn't be looking at what's the cost of that incremental business that I'm taking in, because every dollar of revenue has cost associated with it, whether it's a customer that has a huge volume of small orders, whether they're high maintenance, from a support standpoint, whether they're not treating your employees well, and they're creating turnover in your organization, there are a lot of factors that will lead to a customer being a good customer or a bad customer or good revenue or bad revenue. And so I think to the extent those other intangibles, if you will, or not considered in the process, and those associated costs, that are affiliated with the revenue, the incremental revenue that's being brought in to the extent those aren't considered businesses really doing yourself a disservice from a valuation perspective. Yeah,

Ed Mysogland  9:15  
I hear so many business owners blend, sales and marketing. Now that those aren't different silos, they're one they're just all locked together. So how does how does a business owner, you know, that perhaps may not be able, that is wearing many hats? How does the business owner separate the two? I mean, I assume that you're consulting with businesses. And that's that's, that is very important that you define those roles. How do you do that?

Unknown Speaker  9:46  
My view is and what I've seen in a lot of small businesses, not only do they blend sales and marketing, they're really confused in terms of what constitutes both sales and marketing, which are very different but highly complementary things. A lot of this soldiers will vary randomly and without a lot of intentionality, throw money at the market to try to proliferate their brands. They'll go to trade shows, and they'll speak at an event and they'll sponsor a table at a not for profit event. In my view, marketing needs to be done in a way, like any other business investment, where there's again, a high level of intentionality, there's a high level of integration with a sales function. And those two are treated as a fully integrated continuum to build a larger customer base, and grow within the existing customer base. I think there are many so called experts out there that will talk about customer base marketing, they'll talk about how all you need to do is get on the internet have views and have touches and, and people will just magically buy your product or service. I am highly opposed to that approach. I think while it is good to have a brand that is relatively prolific, especially if you've got a highly developed value proposition and can articulate that mark that in the marketplace, it's very important to make sure that you have a Salesforce that has the ability to back that up, create relationships, understand customer issues, build trust with customers have some cadence of contact that the customers are going to appreciate, and is going to be viewed as valuable, and not just be overwhelmed with content that you're producing. Much of which never gets read or paid attention to in the marketplace, because there's just so much noise at this point.

Ed Mysogland  11:26  
Yeah, I was I was talking to another subject matter expert knew, and he was saying the same thing that, you know, we, it's the same thing, rinse and repeat, you just, you hear the same message, you hear the this is what you need to do. And, and it just becomes, you know, is this right? Or is this just curated content, you know, and I think, you know, where you're where you're heading, that, you know, the customer is different these days, you know, it's not the same customer that you could just call up, develop the relationship and and, you know, you're you're off to the races. Now, there's, there's a difference. Now there's that that sales cycle is probably longer and there's more due diligence, there's more access to vetting the people that that that business owner works with. So along those lines, how do you quantify a good customer is, I believe part of your services, optimizing who that customer is, that's the best avatar for the business.

Greg Stanley  12:32  
What I've seen with customers or clients that I've worked with is that many business owners think that the best customers they have are the ones driving the most top line revenue. However, and this is really sticking to your point as well, if these customers are only focused on low price, they do not or cannot consume the entire breadth of products or services, a company sells their low margin, or they take extent, an extraordinary amount of resources and expense to support. These are often the worst customers that you can have because they can degrade valuation. The definition of a good customer can vary based on the goal of the business, but typically those customers who understand and appreciate your business value proposition and are willing to pay a higher price or a premium for it. Those who represent both revenue and profitability, expansion opportunities, and those who by industry or brand affiliation are recognizable, and with whom that affiliation will be viewed positively by the market and those that are potential investors or buyers of your business. Those tend to be your best customers.

Ed Mysogland  13:30  
Yeah, but you know, the funny thing is, when when you're talking to a business owner, and you say you, you need to the composition of your customers, they they aren't optimized, or you can get better customers. And I mean, if I'm a business owner, I start to cringe like, Oh, my goodness, you're you're really asking me to jettison, you know, they may not be. They may not be the best customer, but they've been with me for 20 years, or they've picked pick whatever reason. I mean, how do you get how do you get around that? Because I'm certain I'm certain there's a number of business owners that are looking at their customer list saying, Yeah, I could probably increase here, here and here. But, you know, I've known this guy for 30 years. I mean, I couldn't do that. You know, how do you get around that?

Unknown Speaker  14:25  
You're absolutely right. And it is really a function of unwinding the mentality, which is sort of the small business mentality before you get into the mid size business mentality. And before you get to the point where you're trying to market and sell your business of any customer is a good customer and any revenue is good revenue. And I think the longer businesses and I'm sure we'll talk more in depth about this here in a bit, but the more runway that businesses give themselves, to really architect a customer portfolio that's going to be desirable to the market when they do go to market. Those are the businesses that are going to demand it Premium when it comes to valuation, those that just have a random assortment of customers that they've gotten over time and have continued to support and service, because they're driving a high level of top line revenue, or because they've known him for 30 years, or whatever the excuse may be, they need to fall in line with the organization's goals relative to brand affiliation relative to potentially industry affiliation, certainly relative to profitability. And relative to growth opportunity. Yeah,

Ed Mysogland  15:27  
because I mean, everybody talks a lot about customer concentration. Well, you know what, there's more to it than customer concentration. It is, where, where's the profit in your customer base? So yeah, I can totally see that. And that's a little bit deeper dive in. I don't think everybody likes that everybody talks about concentration, not everyone talks about profitability. You're absolutely

Greg Stanley  15:50  
right. And it's very difficult, and usually a one time or opportunity to fire a client. So you've got to be really sure once you go down that path of jettison certain clients, because of low profitability that you've tried everything you can to save that relationship, you've had conversations about needing to increase your prices, to make sure that you're maintaining the level of profitability, you need to support a certain valuation, that you've reinforced your value proposition that you've you really uncovered every stone that would allow you to save that relationship. Because again, once you fire a customer one time, it's really hard to recover that relationship. However, having said that, there are businesses that will become more valuable and more profitable by firings, even some of their biggest customers that produce the highest top line revenue, because when they get down to it, and to our earlier conversation, subtract the amount of cost and effort and and operational difficulty that is often caused by some of these larger customers, they actually get more profitable and more valuable by becoming smaller from the top line perspective. Yeah.

Ed Mysogland  16:56  
Well, as we look at customers, I mean, everybody wants sticky customers, somebody that is going to it's going to stay with the business. And the latest and greatest is these recurring revenue models. And there's just, you know, from subscription base to membership to a variety of others, I think there's eight or nine different types of subscription or subscription models. And, and from a from a value standpoint, recurring revenue is certainly amplifies value, but but it's not available for every business. I don't I don't think and some would probably argue with me about that. But what do you do? What do you see in the marketplace as far as recurring revenue,

Unknown Speaker  17:43  
I think recurring revenue can really be defined in a couple of different ways. For some companies, recurring revenue means exactly what you're talking about operating in a SaaS model or a subscription model with multi year contracts in place, while for others, that means selling more to the same company and making sure you maintain that revenue stream, I try to encourage my clients to consider three aspects of revenue growth, retention of existing or good customers. And I think it needs to be defined what a good customer looks like before you focus too much on retention. But to the extent you have those, quote, unquote, good customers categorized, certainly the retention of those, it's hard to create growth, if you've got customer in the front door, as you've got customers leaving out of the back door, capitalizing on expansion, opportunities within those good customers, and then expanding into net new customers. And I think that's what the market tends to value. They want to see organizations adding net new brands, to their portfolio at while also keeping up with profitability metrics and those types of things. They want to see expansion within existing customers. So whether that recurring revenue comes through extremely high customer retention rates, or through multi year guaranteed contract is really the predictability that we're seeing that drives the higher valuation. When you have customers that could defect at any point where you've got a high level of customer turnover, that creates volatility in the revenue model, it creates risk, and therefore it degrades the valuation of the companies.

Ed Mysogland  19:13  
Yeah. And the same thing I'm we're seeing, we're seeing that the greater understanding of your customer base, how much it costs to get them, how much it costs to keep them and how much it costs to service them, is it helps value that you the understanding of what you have as opposed to you know, I'm pushing out service I'm pushing out product and hopefully they'll buy but instead there's a greater understanding of, alright, this is why they buy from me, this is you know, here's my secret sauce. This is this is what makes our company unique. And those are that's that's the recurring or like you were saying the predictability. That's That is what we say from from an amplified value stamp. Absolutely. Um, so when the business owners that you work with, and this is just the, I'm just curious to know, are they more lifestyle driven or legacy driven in today's market,

Unknown Speaker  20:19  
I tried to get my clients to refocus on the legacy aspect or the potential reality. And it is going to be a reality at some point that a transition is going to occur, I think a lot of business owners get really comfortable, whether they're taking $400,000 a year out of the business are $800,000, a year, a million and a half out of the business or whatever they're taking out a year. They've got a very nice comfortable living, they've got potentially a lake house and a boat, and all that they need. And they feel like the business is really well running as a result, as long as they continue to take that kind of money out of the business and enrich their families, and everything's good. I think the challenge is, you get many of these business owners that wake up one day and say, I've done this for 25 years, and I'm just tired, I'm ready to get out. Or I see some impending event coming in the market that's going to potentially devalue my business. Or I've got, I'm going to age out of the business. And I'm just not in the kind of health that I was before. And whether that business transition occurs as a result of aging out of the business, it occurs as a result of an ESOP, or taking a strategic buyer, and allowing the strategic buyer to invest in the company or taking private equity, investment or passing, frankly, the assets down to the heirs of the original owners. If that business owner isn't over time focused on creating the valuation, their business, that is usually the owners largest asset, that they are bigger than their house, oftentimes bigger than the cars they have bigger than their lake house bigger than whatever other asset they have. At some point, like I said, there is going to be a trend transaction or a transition event that occurs and to the extent that event isn't prepared for the owners only have one shot at this, they've put their blood, sweat and tears, a lot of times for a number of years and even decades into these businesses, if they haven't intentionally gone about building the business in a way that maximizes valuation. They've really missed their one opportunity to get out of the business in a way that's going to be most meaningful for themselves and their families.

Ed Mysogland  22:22  
Yeah, and we we see, we see a lot of that too. And and what I think the greatest challenge that the business owner has is, at what point to look at it more as an income producing asset versus a lifestyle business. Not that there's not that there's any difference. I mean, at the end of the day, a lifestyle business is that is that is sellable. I mean that that's, that's the win. So you can if you're able to sell that company, that's ultimately the win for the business owner. But the reason I asked the question is because a lot of the business owners that we work with or without that come through our door, is they're the guys that drive value. They're the guys that have been doing it for 30 or 40 years, and they're out in the marketplace. And that's that's what gives them the juice. So how, and I know you consult with with lots of businesses that are in this predicament, how does that business owner move everything that's in their head, the relationships that they have, to perhaps a number to or, or to a sales group behind him?

Unknown Speaker  23:33  
How do you do that? Yeah, I think the key is a couple of things. Number one, the owners willingness and ability to just let go, the owners start out as clearly the most important person in the business, they've driven the growth, they've done it through sheer will. They've created a great business. But yes, they are the business or the business is defined by them and their relationships and their ability to drive revenue, and they're taken out of the business. And that revenue is put at risk, then they're devaluing the business by staying that integrated and integrally involved in the business. The key really is to hire really good people and make sure that the people you hire are trained and are running the business in your image, as a business owner, and are executing in a way that you want to without putting yourself in a position to have to feel like you have to micromanage people. If you've got to micromanage people, you've got the wrong people. I would encourage business owners to maybe think about hiring fewer people but better people. There have been a lot of books that have been written in terms of the effect of hiring fewer and better people and what that does to the profitability of the business. Scaling up certainly mentions that by Vern Harnish. And so I think the key is hiring the right people, putting them in a place where their job is defined, giving them the ability to do their job, and then start to slowly extract yourself a bit by bit from the business you don't on day one On hand the keys over and say, Okay, I've run this for 25 years you are hired to do a job now take over the business, but over time start to take some of the functions that have previously been done as an owner operator, and evolve into an owner leader. And I think that's where some of the owners have some challenge, it does require a level of competence, and it does require a level of letting go. And it does require a level of trust in the employees that have been hired. But that's why you hire and pay him. And if you can't do that, you've got the wrong people in place. And if you refuse to let go of certain aspects of your business and continue to be, really the sole reason the business exists, and is as profitable and successful as it is, you're doing yourself a disservice. Because when that transaction or transition takes place, you will see less value because whoever buys or invest in your business, they're not doing it, because of you, as the business owner, you get a big check, and you get a big check for going away. And for the management team, that you build that for the customer base, and you build it for you your unique and differentiating value proposition.

Ed Mysogland  26:02  
Yeah, you know, the funny thing is that, you know, business owner, recognize that, but boy, it is such it's like turning an aircraft carrier to get them to buy in to do all these things that that that they have to do in order to move it from, you know, just being the business to this business being able to operate without me.

Unknown Speaker  26:26  
Yeah, well, and as you know, buyers oftentimes look at command strategy. So what has the business owner done to either share some of the equity or assign the business leaders that are effective, and really running the company at the time of their departure, to ensure that they're sticking around and continuing to maintain continuity within the business within the relationships with customers within the operations aspects of the business. And so again, the sooner that can happen, and the sooner the business owner can hire those people that they place a high degree of trust in and really understand the fact that there is going to be nobody that will ever be hired in the business that has as much passion as the original owner of the business. It's just a fact of life, their employees, they didn't put their hearts and souls into building the business. But they have key skills, hopefully they can be leveraged, that would be a value to a potential investor or acquire the business. And they need to make sure that they create that cohesion and also create those capabilities within those people by letting them do their jobs that will sustain the business going forward. Yeah.

Ed Mysogland  27:32  
Tell me a little bit about your service. When When should a business owner, I guess, when should they recognize in their own business, that it's time to engage someone like yourself? And what should they look for and explain how your process works?

Unknown Speaker  27:51  
Yeah, so I would say a couple of things relative to that. I like to think that any business at any stage could potentially use the services that my firm provides. Anyone who is looking to with a higher degree of intentionality, build a business, whose valuation will increase as a result of not only generating more top line sales, and in running a process and creating a revenue generating infrastructure that is much more effective and scalable and efficient than probably they've run in the past. It's interesting in this economic climate that we have, and if you talk about one area where I get any resistance, there are a lot of companies that will say, you know, revenue problem, I don't have a revenue problem. I'm growing at 15% a year. And clearly my, my key issue is I can't find enough people for the manufacturing floor to fulfill all the orders. My view is we are in an unprecedented economic time, and one that has been going on for a long period of time. And I think a lot of business owners have been lured into thinking that their business is a little bit infallible, and is going to grow no matter what I'd rather take the position that even in a good economic time when the business is growing. That's the time when you have the cash to invest to make sure that you're doing things right, as opposed to waiting until there's a downturn in the market, and then all of a sudden your revenue start to decline. You can build the cost structure that's dependent upon those revenues to be able to support itself and support payroll and support the operational costs. That's the wrong time to find out that you could have done things more effectively or more efficiently. Also, I would say, once business owners start thinking about, at some point, there's going to be a transition. It could be a year and a half out. It could be three years out, it could be five years out farther in advance. They think about that transition. And again, it could be a strategic buyer that comes in to buy it could be taking private equity money could be launching an ESOP, whatever it is that they're going to take a large sum of money out at the business, the farther in advance of that event, they can start thinking about building this revenue function in a way that is a creative devaluation, the better off, they're going to be once to once they receive that check. You also asked about how my process works and what services I tend to offer. I tend to go into companies in one of a couple of capacities. Typically, it will be in the form of an assessment. So I'll help companies take a look at their leadership team, their process of hiring and managing sales people, their KPIs, all the things that tend to be at a management or leadership level from a sales team perspective, I'll then help them assess their sales team if they have one in place. And I've helped clients as well as other employers in the past, build sales teams from the ground up to take a look at their team to say, Okay, do we have the right people in the right seats? And can they? Do they have the desire? And do they have the capacity to be effective in this role? Then I take a look at what those underlying supporting infrastructure pieces or components are, that can really enable a sales team to be effective. So things like Do you have the right commission structure in place that drives the right behavior that will enhance valuation? Do you have the right level of integration between marketing and sales? Do you have the right value proposition that the market is going to accept? And understand that is differentiated and is worth paying a premium for? And are you articulating that consistently in the marketplace? So I'll do an assessment of those three components, come back with a number of recommendations. And clients certainly are free to implement those recommendations on their own if they're comfortable doing so. And or I've stayed on a retainer basis with a number of clients that have needed additional help in the implementation of those and have even asked me to take on a role of a fractional, call it a VP of sales, to help them make sure that I'm transferring some knowledge and putting them in the best possible position to hire the person that will effectively be my replacement. Once my project has run its course,

Ed Mysogland  32:03  
I guess, where's your sweet spot, as far as the customers that you work with, Who's your ideal customer,

Unknown Speaker  32:08  
I would say typically, those customers or businesses, and it's going to be the business owner in almost every case, that's going to engage me but those that are in that $5 million in revenue, 200 or $150 million in revenue, who either think they could use some improvement in their sales function who may have lost a sales leader, and they're looking to retool things who have never had a sales leader and have had the sales function reporting to an owner that does not have a marketing and sales background, those companies that are looking to scale. I originally thought just based on my background that many of my clients would either be in the professional services realms or the technology realms. What I've found is there's enough commonality in building an effective sales organization or revenue function, across industry, that I've been engaged by companies that are in the hospital and healthcare safety arena, in the oilfield services industry in the technology security industry, in the orthotics and clinical businesses, in the benefit plan administration businesses. So it really runs the gamut from an industry perspective and has really become a North American play. I've got clients in Atlanta, I've got clients on the East Coast, I've got clients in Calgary, Canada. So it has certainly grown much farther afield, and much more from an industry perspective. And I had expected, but those companies all have very common issues that I feel like my experience and my firm's delivery capabilities have the have the ability to address for these business owners.

Ed Mysogland  33:45  
So my last question is that if you had one piece of advice to give our listeners that would have the most immediate impact on their business, what would it be?

Unknown Speaker  33:54  
I would say it's doing everything they do with a high level of intentionality that's focused on valuation. Like I mentioned earlier in the podcast, the ownership has one opportunity to sell the business. And the more runway they give themselves to build it with the right customer base with the right level of profitability with the right level of people in place, with the right commission structure for their sales team that drives the right behaviors and thrives the right customers, when they done the right amount of market and target segmentation. And they really understand as a business, who those customers are, they're going to be most coveted and create the most value in their business. There's an entire continuum that needs to be managed. And it's really stopping doing things for money and really starting to operate with a high degree of intentionality that I'd like to think excelerate consultants would be well positioned to help them develop.

Ed Mysogland  34:47  
I agree. So what's the best way we can connect with you?

Unknown Speaker  34:51  
Certainly can connect through my website, which is accelerant. consultants.com My cell phone number is 3178472 Six to nine oh, on August 7, I will be participating in a session by the driven by the Old National Bank center for closely held businesses through Butler University and be giving a session there. And certainly once on the website, there are a number of white papers I'd like to think would inspire some thought among business owners. Things like why the commission structure they currently have may not be driving the right amount of value and growth, the business things like how you grow not only in top line revenue, but how you grow the right way. So I would invite anyone to get on the website, download those white papers, and certainly feel free to contact me. I'd love to have these conversations with business owners and understand how they built their businesses. And even providing tidbits of advice over the course of the launch. I'm happy to do it, if it helps the small business community.

Ed Mysogland  35:52  
I know. Well, I will link all of that in the show notes. So Greg, I can't tell you how much I appreciated your time I learned a lot about about revenue and sales and how that I think the big takeaway was that it all can translate, even top line. And intuitively you understand that it can, that it all contributes to value. But understanding the sub segments of revenue, and how that translates into value was a was a big win. So I appreciate that. So thank you so much for for being with us and anything else before we sign off?

Unknown Speaker  36:31  
No, I think we're in great shape. I really appreciate you having me. And it was a pleasure to be on and hopefully this will help some small business owners think a little bit differently and maximize their efforts, their exit winning effects that have been occurs. All right. Well,

Ed Mysogland  36:45  
thanks so much, and cheers, appreciate it.

Unknown Speaker  36:47  
Thanks. Have a great day.