Episode 110: Trusts as part of an Exit Strategy with Bruce Mack

Ed Mysogland  0:19  
So as we're coming to the beginning of the year, you know, people are taking the, the time to kind of reflect on, you know, what the, what they've done and what they're going to do. And so, this is really timely, because we're talking about trust today. And, you know, and again, welcome to the defenders of business value, and another episode and this one, this one's really good, I really enjoyed this, that I talked to Bruce, Mac of platinum trust group.

Bruce Mack  0:52  
And it, you know, it's

Ed Mysogland  0:55  
a really, he really helped me understand, you know, a dense topic about trust and the things that, that go into it, whether it's personal trust, or business trust, and how, how business owners not only can protect the assets that they've, that they that they have, and need to preserve, but also how to exit well and minimize the capital gains tax on the way out. So you know, Bruce, yeah, he's a, he's a licensed financial adviser and a trust expert. You know, he, he works with lots and lots of business owners to help mitigate their tax, and provide him total protection of the assets that they've accumulated over the course of their professional life.

Unknown Speaker  1:49  
I

Ed Mysogland  1:51  
know, like I indicated, I am not versed in taxes, I know enough to make me dangerous. But I do know that, you know, it seems as though the trust Avenue is such a, an easy layup, that's that there's not enough awareness about how you might be able to use it in order to, to a protect your assets and be, you know, when you are exiting how to maximize that the proceeds. And that's ultimately what we want to share here on this podcast. So I'm certain you're going to enjoy this conversation I have with Bruce Mac, of the platinum trust group. Well, welcome to the show, Bruce.

Bruce Mack  2:39  
Well, thank you very much for having me here today. Edie? Well,

Ed Mysogland  2:43  
you know what, I'm so glad that we were able to connect, because this is, this is kind of the advanced planning that so many business owners are just, you know, I lose them. Or, or they they hear about, and they like the idea of minimizing taxes, but they just don't understand, you know, what this is all about? So, so I'm really excited about that. So if you would talk a little bit about about your practice, and just just how you got into this?

Speaker 1  3:17  
Well, first of all, great question, How did I get into this and, and some feedback about the practice, I'm a licensed financial advisor. I've been in the trust business for decades, I got into the trust business as a, if you will, as a protective mechanism. Because of what happened to me, personally, I've been a very active real estate investor. And as an active real estate investor, I've bought rehab and flipped over 160 properties in one three year period of time, been involved in over $92 million with real estate transactions, but I can't say that all of them went smooth as silk. One in particular, was the predominating reason that I said, Never again, and that predominating I'll digress and give you the story.

Unknown Speaker  4:19  
I had a guy, great guy who was a

Speaker 1  4:26  
casino executive who had lost everything, you older gentleman, and for whatever reason, he was put out to pasture that was a horrible, horrible situation. Even even have enough money to pay his taxes. And because he didn't have enough money to pay his taxes. He ended up with $150,000 tax lien and because he ended up with $150,000 tax lien he was also in foreclosure with his house and there was no equity to be able to be gotten out of the house. So he was gonna let it go to the bank. And of course, at that particular point, that's when I specialize in helping people out who are in pre foreclosure, I was able to find him, talk to him, and tell him about a very little known tax strategy that says that if you filed your taxes, however, weren't able to pay your taxes, and the assessments had been done, which they are when they're filed, and it was over 280, some odd days that you could discharge those tax obligations into chapter seven bankruptcy. So I said, Look, Bill, you got $150,000 equity in your house? If we're able to get rid of the IRS tax lien? What do you say? I'm certainly willing to take on the obligation, I'll give give you the money to do a bankruptcy, if that's what you want to do. And should you merge from the bankruptcy, I'm 100%, confident that the tax lien will be wiped off of you, because your tax liability will go away. If we can do that, we should be able to get it off the house. He said, You do that? And I said, Sure. Why not? Well, we did that. And that worked. And that was great. And we were eventually able to get the lien off the house. We were able to then sell the house and he walked away with $75,000. And our firm did too. So now bills the door knocker and he's advocating the anybody that he encounters that's in distress, you got to work with Bruce Mac, because he actually knows what he's talking about. So he encounters this Yahoo. And this is where things kind of get ugly. The guys, the guys couple of weeks away from foreclosure. And the guy says to Bill, yeah, I'd like to speak with Bruce. But Mr. Mack, but I don't have any transportation. My car's in the shop. So Bill offers him a ride down to the office, he comes down to the office, we sit down, we have a couple of cups of coffee, everything's great. He says, I want to do you love your program during the equity split, you're going to fix up the house, you're going to help me relocate, you're going to do all these things. And how can I lose? And exactly because that was the proposition? How could you lose? Well, everything was done, paperwork was signed, and a week later, I got hit with a massive lawsuit. This is a type of lawsuit that can happen to any of us, any of the people that are listening to this broadcast, where somebody sees a deep pocket because you're a business owner, and maybe you're thinking about doing it exit very soon. But this could absolutely throw a monkey wrench right into your motor and stop things dead in their tracks until you're able to resolve it if you're able to resolve it. Anyhow, back to my story.

Bruce Mack  7:51  
So

Bruce Mack  7:53  
we go to our lawyer, and we say what can be done? And what is he suing us for? Well, I come to find out that he sued me for Are you ready for this kidnapping? That's, of course, when Bill took them down to the office. You sued us for being forced into duress to sign the contract. And he

Bruce Mack  8:17  
also sued for Believe it or not,

Speaker 1  8:21  
he said he was highly intoxicated at the time. Okay, great. Well, what ended up happening was, My lawyer gave me two choices. Bruce, you can either reinstate his loan, or you could borrow and pay all the expenses for gosh knows how long or you can let the house go to foreclosure. But I have to warn you if you do, likely, you're going to end up in this situation where he's going to amend the complaint come after you for even more. And I went, are you kidding? He also, by the way, tried to sue us and alleged in the complaint alter ego in that we were creating a fraud a fraud in the way that we had in the fact that we had created an LLC. Now many of you that are on this call, have an LLC a C or an S and that alter ego is an easy way to pierce the corporate veil. I'll get back to that in a moment. The bottom line was he sued me for 175,000 or for an undisclosed amount, but it ended up costing me by the time I was able to negotiate a settlement with him $175,000 That is what precipitated me looking for a better way to go than utilizing an LLC as a holding device or as an entity to hold my business in which I came to find out later works like Swiss cheese. So that drove me towards finding and being directed towards utilizing trusts to hold my business as an entity that can stop a potential suitor. in their tracks from being able to execute a lien levy or judgment. So now we had an asset protection mechanism, which I tell everybody I encounter, you really need to have that in place as a way to be doing your business so that in the event that there's a Yahoo out there, they're not going to be able to get the goal from you. Years later, I was able to also surface and work with some great people that are tax professionals, and estate planning professionals, we put them all together to come up with the trust that we have today, which also includes a huge component, which is the tax mitigation component, where active income can be turned into passive income, and capital gains income on an exit, or any other capital gains income that a client may have from stocks that he may be selling from other asset classes that he may have

Unknown Speaker  11:05  
all

Speaker 1  11:08  
100% of capital gains, income is eliminated with our clients. So these are where this is where the practice has grown to and evolve to, but I wanted to really back up and tell you how I started and what drove me to getting into this crazy business in the first place.

Ed Mysogland  11:31  
So let's start with the trust. So explain to me how, how it's formed, you know, its mechanics, and you know, because I'm certain a lot of people are like, Yeah, this is great, I'm gonna I get, I can minimize all my taxes I have I have protection to the trust. What is it? And how do I do it?

Bruce Mack  11:55  
Without getting into

Bruce Mack  11:56  
a bunch of minutia in detail, we have multiple different types of trusts. First of all, we have a personal slash Family Trust, we also have a business trust, most of the people that are on the call today being business people would invariably need both. The trust can be formed up and running, usually within a four to six week period of time. And once it's up and running, you do have the ironclad asset protection. And you also have the tax mitigation benefits. One of the things that we do is we have 17 advisors that are on our team, and they get if you will assign to individuals to be working with to help them do what's called the moving of their convey and conveying of assets from them personally or from the their current entities that they control and or own into the trust environment utilizing bills of sale. And this goes for their businesses. And this goes for other asset classes that they may own things like they may own a car or multiple cars, jet skis, mobile homes are RVs they may also own classes of assets such as gold or silver assets, stocks, they may own notes that they that they carry all, if you will, appraisal assets that one owns are moved into the trust for both safekeeping and when they're selling that the the ability to eliminate capital gains on sale. So when I say selling, and I want to be clear on this, well, let's say you have a stock portfolio, let's say you have $100,000 in your stock portfolio, and it's owned by you personally, we're going to convey and sell that asset to the trust utilizing that conveyance form and utilizing goal of sale and stepping stepping the client through it. And that is not going to trigger capital gain because we are strictly selling and conveying the ownership for this. This is a common question comes up we'll moving assets selling assets to the trust that creates a taxable, taxable event. No it doesn't, you're strictly moving the ownership and by so doing that gives you then the ability to as soon as that asset classes sold, should you want to sell part or all of it or whatever. Then the trust would be doing the selling through your direction and then 100% of the capital gain means that would normally be associated with it become eliminated because of the the operation of the trust and how its structured. So

Ed Mysogland  15:08  
you you mentioned that there's a personal trust and a business trust. I'm assuming it's just it's just as it relates to the assets that are included in the trust.

Bruce Mack  15:16  
Yes.

Speaker 1  15:18  
And one question that also comes up is, so if I have a different business, let's just say I own a manufacturing company, but I also own a carwash. Does that mean? Does that mean, Bruce, that I have two different business trusts? No, not at all. One business trust, because of its

Bruce Mack  15:39  
complete asset protection

Speaker 1  15:41  
capabilities, and the way we have designed our business trust, we have individual compartments that each business our business venture goes into. And we've done this, so that there is no limit to the amount of businesses that can be in these individual compartments. And this also provides a higher level of privacy. So individuals who are real estate investors, they may have five, they may have 10, they may have 100, plus houses, and they would each go into a separate what's called compartment we call them divisions. And that can all fall under one trust, and or people who are doing an exit, they may have a business of doing an exit on but they may have other businesses, each one again, we go into its own division, each one of them has its a total asset protection, as well as privacy that they would never have, if they maintain that asset in an LLC, a C or an S. And so like to speak about that privacy issue for a minute, because it's really important.

Bruce Mack  16:55  
Man, place,

Bruce Mack  16:57  
LLC season SS we are like Swiss cheese, they're very porous. A Wake Forest law review study shows that 46% 46%, almost one and two, if you will, times out of 100, almost 50% of the time, when sued, the asset is able to be pierced, meaning the entity is able to be pierced. Well, you know, once that the assets been pierced or the entity has been pierced, then the entire contents can be wiped out. So let's just say have a million dollar lawsuit award against you. And let's just say that you've got an asset class in an LLC, and the value of its $250,000 When litigated, not only can they take that, but in most every state, there is another problem, which is called reverse veil piercing. People don't know about this, they live that all my assets in one in one entity, I'm safe, worst thing that's going to happen, they're going to get the one entity or and that's going to be that not so

Bruce Mack  18:22  
we've seen consistently, when there's not enough, if you will, equity

Bruce Mack  18:28  
to do a satisfaction of judgment in one entity. Utilizing reverse veil piercing, one can go to the next entity and or the next entity and or the next entity to be able to get satisfaction of judgment. This is why I really don't like LLCs This is one of the allegations that was made against me when I lost $175,000 Because I have a closely held entity, a closely held entity means any entity that has less than 35 people. Well, most entities do, unless they're widely held C corpse would Azure. If there LLCs are their closely held S's or C's with s selections. They're generally 234 people, and they always therefore, or fall into that closely held entity status, which puts them right in the gunsights of somebody making an allegation of Alter Ego, which means that you have created a facade in order to protect the shareholder. That's a third year law student allegation and that's why 46% of the time or almost a one in two shot. You're going to get the the entity pierced and therefore lose everything.

Ed Mysogland  20:00  
When, when these entities when these trusts are formed, and I put in, I put in my entities, so tell me, so the entity still file normal tax returns and such? Or does the trust file

Bruce Mack  20:15  
a file a tax

Ed Mysogland  20:19  
return? How what does that look like from a tax standpoint? Or reporting standpoint? Or let's just say, you know, a regulatory standpoint, what do I got to do? In order I put, I put all my stuff in here, I put all my assets into the into both trust now what I want now what I do?

Bruce Mack  20:40  
Well, first of all, let me put you at ease and say that one of the things that clients get is they get their first year tax returns done by our accounting team, where we have CPAs, we have enrolled agents with the IRS, we have bookkeeping of bookkeepers, we have accountants, we have the full complement. And that's a part of what we do.

Bruce Mack  21:04  
On the other hand,

Speaker 1  21:06  
invariably, if it's somebody who has a business, they're gonna need a business trust, and there will be a business return done, then there will also be a 1040, that needs to be completed. And a 1041 1041 is a trust return. And those will all be filed by one of our team members who take care who takes care of that for the client on their behalf.

Ed Mysogland  21:35  
So with a trust, the trust comes with the trustee, right, who's the trustee?

Speaker 1  21:39  
That's up to the individual, generally, and this is, this is a discussion that can get deeper, but oftentimes, it's them. Or they may opt, and this is one of the things that we can that we can talk about, about utilizing and introducing a fiduciary, which they create a contractual relationship with, which oftentimes might be their lawyer or a lawyer that we can, that we can serve up when they it's done that way, they have to act in the client's best interest. And this is, without a doubt, a win win scenario. And also, people seem to think this is going to cost 1000s and 1000s of dollars, one of the one of the lawyers that we work with, like 300 bucks a year. So it's very, very inexpensive, additional components.

Ed Mysogland  22:35  
So why would I want an attorney as opposed to being my own trustee of my own assets? What would be the the advantages or disadvantages?

Speaker 1  22:43  
Well, one of the advantages is for legacy planning. And one of the other advantages are because they have a fiduciary responsibility act in your best interest, especially on and follow your direction, because we will also have them create a contractual relationship with them. That's a separate and aside, therefore, they have to by law, let's put it that

Bruce Mack  23:13  
way. I get it.

Ed Mysogland  23:14  
But at the same time, if there's malfeasance for whatever reason, and every one of every asset I have is stuck in that trust and that man or woman or that attorney, while contractually obligated to has some sort of meltdown, and disposes of all of my assets or, or pick whatever happened. What's my recourse? I'm, I'm now out of business, literally and figuratively,

Speaker 1  23:40  
the way it's structured. We have things done by committee that can't happen. And that's one of the safeguards put into our proprietary trust. Great question.

Ed Mysogland  23:50  
Okay, so there's there's a bunch of speed bumps that will prevent the person

Speaker 1  23:55  
I guess I would go further and say big, big tall guardrails.

Ed Mysogland  24:00  
That works do so, on the inbound assets, do they have to be appraised by a third party going into the trust? Or is it hype? You know, how how, how are how is the value calculated inbound?

Unknown Speaker  24:16  
Well,

Bruce Mack  24:17  
let's take a car. That's an asset, right? We use blue book, and what we're going to use also for appraisals, when we do and create what we call those conveyances to create what's what is known as a promissory note, which is an IOU from the trust to you, and can consideration of sale of your assets, what we use as book value, if it's personal property, and we use basis if it's real property. So basis is very simple. What did you pay for it when when you bought it whenever What did you put in To since then to maybe enhance it. That's basis. So it's a, it's not a brain twisting operation to be able to derive what the value is. And then once that's established, and once that node has been created, then the individual has the ability to at any time and for any reason, utilize the IOU funds for anything that they wish whatsoever. Without any tax ramifications, which is one of the neat things with the trust, let's just say you own a manufacturing company. But let's just say that your wife still works a W two job and she brings in $120,000 $150,000 in her day job as a W two employee. Well, one of the things that we would suggest is that we would take the majority of that money. And we would also as she gets paid every couple of weeks and just move it over from her personal checking account into the trust. Once that additional money is in the trust, if there was a suit and choose named, and the husband was named as CO defendants in a potential declaration of assets that would have have to happen later. The Grilli good news is that they would not disclose the amount that's in the trust, because that money is in the trust. And you can move that money back and forth, where you're making allocations back to your personal checking account. On a discretionary basis for going out and, and procuring incidentals, one of the other things is, we have the ability to take the active business income and utilizing our trust, create it to be passive income 100% And that's from the business 100% of passive income, pursuant to the trust is not taxable until the distribution of the trust, which then begs the question when's, when does the trust distribute? Right? The trust distributes in accordance with the law or rules of perpetuity, the rules of perpetuity so stay that the trust will automatically distribute 21 years the day after the last sole surviving heir to the last sole surviving beneficiary deceases. So the Trust has many different components to the trust, which is why it took quite some time to put it together. Sure, one of those components is the dynasty provision, meaning that is a true multi generational wealth transferred school. And the idea in mind that the trust will likely not distribute for hundreds of years. And when it does becomes academic. Because upon distribution, any taxes that might be owed, if there aren't needed if accrued, and downstream to that particular point. There's not any one individual that is alive or around, I should say, to be collected from that tax liability.

Bruce Mack  28:33  
Interesting. So

Ed Mysogland  28:34  
just two questions. One, so when I fill out my personal financial statement, I have a trust. What do I put up? Do I put is, am I obligated to disclose the trust?

Speaker 1  28:47  
You are not obligated to, to disk to disclose the trust.

Bruce Mack  28:53  
And number two, it so it's it's interesting.

Bruce Mack  28:58  
I want to stop one second, if I might, I don't mean to share. This can also be very helpful for people who have teenage kids on the one hand or might be older folks, and are looking to preserve their,

Speaker 2  29:16  
their their, if you will, their wealth, if they have to do a

Speaker 1  29:24  
Medicaid disclose. Yeah, that was my next question. Okay, so let me go to the first one because that's an unusual one. So let's just say you've got teenage kids. There are provisions for the beneficiaries for

Bruce Mack  29:40  
education, medical, maintenance,

Bruce Mack  29:45  
and support. Let's drill on the educational piece for one moment. One of the things that we really love is the ability to when somebody is put upon them the FASFA, forms which you may or may not be aware of the financial aid forms when the kids are

Bruce Mack  30:04  
real aware of 16.

Speaker 1  30:08  
If the assets are in the trust, the assets from the trust is not brought into the equation. And

Bruce Mack  30:17  
therefore, somebody can

Speaker 1  30:21  
be in line for the highest amount of subvention from the financial, from financially from the institution that they want their kids to go to. I'll get really as an example,

Ed Mysogland  30:34  
what So you're telling me that I can have $10 million in a trust and fill out my FAFSA form, and they're going to give me they're going to give me unbelievable financial aid, because I don't have to disclose, disclose within the trust. I'm

Speaker 1  30:48  
going to say that we have seen on a number of occasions, that a very same thing, or that scenario happened over and over and over jesting, I think the Notre Dame tuition right now $74,000. And we've seen, and I can think of a case where the individual ended up having but a 12 $13,000 amount to pay for the tuition. This is this is the type of super savings. And your next question is, well, if the trust is helpful there can the trust also pay for other educational needs? Yes, for preschool for elementary school, for private high school, certainly for college, certainly for graduate school and postgraduate studies as well. So this is something that can save a business owner, who has a couple of kids, quite literally, potentially hundreds of 1000s of dollars, depending upon where the kids are going, and what the what the awards might end up being. And I'm so I'm sorry, good. No, I'm gonna say on the other end, there's a thing that many people may not be aware of called Medicaid spin down. Or if you need to apply for Medicaid, they will, within the first six months, they will give you a financial statement. And it does vary from state to state. But most many states, you can only have a couple $1,000 A month or less in certain cases coming in, and anything over that they're going to take, they will also end up taking your primary residence after the last to die expires, and in other assets to be able to settle the bill with Medicaid. And that can be ugly, and that can absolutely wreck a legacy for the children, which is of course why you worked so hard in the first place. All right. All right.

Ed Mysogland  33:05  
I am some I'm now exiting the business. So my So two questions, one, what did What did it cost me to spin up this this this trust and put my business in their ballpark between you know, give me give me within 25 grand?

Speaker 1  33:24  
I always like to deflect that answer by saying we hit so many different combinations. Do you want to done for you? Do you want to do want to do you want to done with you? Do you do also do also want to engage with the private family foundation this that? So I'm sure

Ed Mysogland  33:46  
there's a bunch of add ons. But I mean, generally speaking somebody somebody's going to say Yeah, that's great. Ballpark, what's this thing going to cost me to do? Just the basic? I just want a Honda, I want a Honda trust. What is what does that look? Well, let

Speaker 1  34:01  
me put it this way. Are our trusts could easily run in the $50,000 range? or more? potentially less depending upon what the what the need is. But let's take a look at the reward. Right, right. You have and then you have and then you have a reward. First of all, if somebody has under $500,000 worth of assets, we're not the right solution. We really aren't because you have enough assets to protect in the first place. If somebody has a capital gain event that that they're looking at that's on the horizon, either in the near future or in the foreseeable future in the next 234 or five years or less. And that taxable event is going to be a sizable capital gain, then it's pretty simple. If you're selling your house a business and you're selling it for half a million dollars, you already know that you're looking at $100,000 tax bill which we can eliminate. So the ends absolutely justified the means and journeys, the opportunity to also have the tax mitigation component in place for the monies and an income that you're going to be receiving to help mitigate on that tax liability Bill between now and whenever the exit is, along with the fact that, as I said, the worst thing that could ever happen to somebody is that they could have a lawsuit that comes against them and or their business, which could totally take either one or both out. And this is the other component that we bring to the table so people can quite literally sleep better at night. So why don't more people do this? Good question. I'm sure you would agree that 95% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, their W two employees, we don't have a solution for w two employees? Well, we do. But it's it's it's another, it's another solution with a private family foundation where we can cherish we can divert some of the income by lowering it and doing doing foundation work. But most people, if they are not entrepreneurs and business owners, this is very likely not the right solution for them. So therefore, this leaves a very small amount of people that it's right for. When I do slide presentations, I show the Rockefellers, the Kennedys, the Carnegie's, I also show the slide that I created when I was watching TV several months ago, and it was on Fox News. And it was channel surfing, it says Camilla Harris has a tax advantage trust. Now, I don't think Camilla Harris is would be the first one to be advertising it on TV. I believe one of the reasons Romney lost the election. I'm not trying to be political. I'm just giving you my my feelings was because he he was put up against the wall and disclose that he has a tax ID that he paid 15% in taxes? Well. Sure, people don't want to advertise that they have a test. People don't like to talk about politics, they don't like to talk about money. I totally don't disagree with them. That's their choice. Because oftentimes, this this creates, if you will, unrest behind the scenes, because people become jealous if they know how much money somebody's making, so on and so forth. They want to keep these things private. And this is exactly my feeling is to why more people do not know that these types of opportunities address and we do a devolution,

Ed Mysogland  38:07  
good answer. All right, so the last question. So we're probably on 120 episodes. And so I always ask this last question for all my guests that if you had one piece of advice that you would give to business owners that would either increase the value or increase the saleability.

Bruce Mack  38:29  
What would it be? Well, I would say

Bruce Mack  38:37  
the one piece of advice would be to get a trust. Not only is it going to increase your bottom line when you sell, but if you can educate and pass along the fact that you have the trust for them to get a trust, when they acquire the business, they themselves will also have a more fruitful business, a better acid protected business, and they will end up having more spendable if you will income in their back pocket on an ongoing basis. Interesting.

Ed Mysogland  39:15  
Bruce, I'll tell you what I I appreciate all all the all your wisdom. I did not know that I didn't know about trust. I mean, I knew a little bit to make me dangerous, but I did. I had no idea of all the ins and outside. I appreciate you taking the time today to educate us on

Speaker 1  39:34  
Well, lad, I I appreciate the opportunity to be on your show. And I'll tell you, most people when they hear the word Trust, they hear they think about a living trust or living well. And a lot of people have them and they have them for good reason because they do meet a circumstance and fulfill that need. The need is for a probate avoid use and for naming who the beneficiaries are. Unfortunately, those types of trusts do not provide and cannot provide just by their construct any asset protection and or tax mitigation. Now we can take those trusts and meld them into our trust. But I just want people to understand when they, when they hear the word, I've got a trust. Well, we need to take a look at what type of trust that is, and how we can weave your existing trust into the fabric of our trust so that you have the best of all worlds. Got it?

Bruce Mack  40:36  
So where where can we find you?

Speaker 1  40:40  
Easily gettable, let me give you a link right to my personal calendar for one on one. If somebody would like to engage, we're delighted to do that waiver, normal $250 console fee for anybody who mentions your name. So please guys mentioned Edie, and we're going to save you, we're going to save you that console fee.

Bruce Mack  41:04  
Please go to Bruce. Dot platinum,

Speaker 1  41:09  
trust group.com. Let me repeat that.

Unknown Speaker  41:13  
That's Bruce dot platinum,

Speaker 1  41:16  
trust group.com. That will take you to my direct calendar, where you can book an appointment at a convenient time for you. I'll give you a call. We'll sit down, we'll lay everything on the table and see if it makes sense for you. It may it may not but at least you'll get the answers. Right,

Bruce Mack  41:35  
um, Bruce,

Ed Mysogland  41:36  
it's been it's been a lot of fun Lexa that I I'm I'm so glad that we had the opportunity to visit especially, you know, we're we're recording here in middle of November. And this will probably be live end of December 1 of January, which to me I think is a really good time for people to start exploring some tax mitigation strategies. So thanks so much for spending this last hour away.

Bruce Mack  42:02  
Thank you so much for having me on your show and being able to get the word out to your folks and again. Thanks.