EP 91: How to Sell an Aerial Photography Company with Andrew Wahl

Ed Mysogland  00:34
The opportunity to interview Andrew Wall. And Andrew is he's actually a colleague, but I met I met him probably a couple years back where yeah, he's the second youngest deal guy I've ever hired. And, and I was the first at 22. And Andrew, when we brought him on, he was 30. And one of the things I'm so excited about, about him as a deal guy is when I hire people I often am looking at, you know, what's their pedigree do? Have they ever sold a business? Can they empathize with business owners. And where the reason I share this is Andrew sold his aerial photography, business or drone business. And

Andrew Wahl  01:34
it is

Ed Mysogland  01:37
he took it from start to finish. So Andrew comes from a long line of entrepreneurs that I mean, that's the first thing. So he he understands just about business, and about the trials and tribulations that you you face as an entrepreneur. So he has back his degree is from an entrepreneurship from Ball State. He has owned and operated probably three or four different businesses. He is a commercial realtor, he's a business broker. And he is now and I say that at the end of our of our visit, that, you know, it's people like him that I believe are the future of this type of industry as far as the business brokerage and the selling of businesses, because I think the median age of people spinning up, companies is going to continue to to get lower. And I think businesses like him and his, his his drone business, you'll find that it started as a Christmas present. And he came out and turned it into a saleable asset. So as we as the podcast, as we recorded, I mean, you can you can hear how, as a seller, you know, all of the things that went into making it a saleable business, going through due diligence, how he had to address contracts, lots of contracts that were in place, I think you'll learn that, you know, this is this is a type of business that appeal to a lot of different buyers, but ultimately, who who was the right buyer and how he found it. So Andrew is a, like I said, he, I believe he and people like him are the future of, of entrepreneurship and, and so I am 100% certain that you will learn a ton about the sale process, whether you're in the Drone World or not. But regardless, I hope you enjoy my conversation with Andrew Wall. Well, welcome to the show, Andrew.

Andrew Wahl  03:52
Yeah. Thanks for having me on. To talk with you today. Well,

Ed Mysogland  03:58
it's good to have you.

Andrew Wahl  04:01
So

Ed Mysogland  04:01
I before he came on, I recorded your intro and I probably didn't do it justice. So can you take 30 seconds and, you know, kind of give an overview of you what you're doing where you came from and and

Andrew Wahl  04:16
such. Sure, yeah, 30 seconds. That'll be that'll be tough. But the high level is, you know, come from a long line of entrepreneurs went to Ball State to study entrepreneurship and marketing came out of school, bright eyed, bushy tailed, ready to go get a sales job bounced around at a couple places. Before I ended up in commercial real estate and business brokerage, which is what I do now, and most recently exited my aerial photography company that I started back in 2014. Believe it or not. Well, let's start there.

Ed Mysogland  04:55
Let's let's let's talk about how you got into aerial photography.

Andrew Wahl  05:00
Yeah, yeah, so I was actually admittedly taking my victory lap at Ball State and trying to figure out what to do with my life. And at the time, the drones had just come out. I have seen a few of them and had just had got one actually, for my parents just maybe a couple $100 one for for Christmas, and they're my buddies go prime to get up 1000 feet, which is not, does not fall in FAA regulations. And at that point, I realized that there was definitely money to be made there. Because up until that point, it really, really wasn't an option to just put a camera anywhere in the sky. So

Ed Mysogland  05:45
So you got a Christmas present, you stick a GoPro on it, and and right out of the gate of businesses born.

Andrew Wahl  05:52
Yeah, that's basically a team. So you know, the technology is dead. So

Ed Mysogland  06:00
Right. So how did you get your first guy to get your first customer? Or who was your first customer?

Andrew Wahl  06:06
I'm sure it was somebody, a family friend that was in real estate and said, you know, hey, can you do this? And just kind of a quick sidebar for all the technology nerds out there, you know, at the time, there was no feedback for the video. I mean, so now you have these screens on the camera controller that have a live feed you can you can make settings and adjustments on the fly. At the time, I was just strapped my GoPro on with, you know, really probably no gimbal no stabilizer flying around this house. And just, I was just taking pictures automatically. And I just kind of spray and pray. But yeah, it was a lot of the under the table at the time, it wasn't even commercially, you weren't able to make money, not commercially. So it was a lot of these under the table cash deals. And it was it was an exciting time, because everything was unfolding in that world. I was working one on one with clients directly saying hey, this, this would solve my problems. And so it was an exciting time was also a lot of running around. And you know, there's no market. So it's 50. Maybe a half to 75 at one point and but ya know, sort out there and I think it was 2020. When no, I'm sorry, right? 2018 when the FAA came out and said, part 107 Go out and get it, get your license, get insured. And you can do this commercially. And so at that point, I had probably 10 or 15 clients that I just said, Hey, I'm doing this. And thankfully, they supported me and some are even still with the company today, which is amazing.

Ed Mysogland  07:44
Good for you. So So you know, and it's funny, you start talking about, you know, what you were doing in 2014. And then, you know, everybody on the internet has seen that cubs drone video. Yeah, where, where they fly through Wrigley Field through through all the ins and outs behind the scenes. And, you know, that's where that's where it currently is, which is an entirely different business than, than I think you you anticipated when you started, right?

Andrew Wahl  08:15
Why per se I mean, at one point or, and usually hit a nail on the head at one point it was it's a miracle that you can put that camera right there and take this angle, vantage point. Now everybody has a drone, project managers on site have drones, because it's just not that tough to take pictures. I hate hate to say that for all my photography, people out there, but it's really not. Now you take that and compare it up to a personalized, unique, coordinated flight through that in 30 seconds captures the true culture of your company, or or your or the feel of a bar. I mean, I don't even know I'm still struggling to put a value on that because it's just you can't represent. It's very, very challenging to so yeah, it's it's come a long way. It's it's exciting.

Ed Mysogland  09:03
Yeah. Well, and that that leads me to kind of to the next question is, is where where is the industry? And where is it going? Yeah. Because, as as you as I see, as I see you and I see your exit and where you came from and where it's at. I'm just curious to know, where what what happens next, you know, because, you know, when we talk on the podcast, we we talk about value and value is about earnings growth and risk. So that I guess I want to start with the growth. Where did where does this thing go from here?

Andrew Wahl  09:41
Well, you know, I read an article recently that said by 2025, the German industries anticipated to be a $25 billion industry, which is crazy to me. You know, what was once pictures and video and marketing. Supplementation is now out construction documentation, it can be used for scanning and surveying, it can be used for insurance purposes. I mean, there's there's things like Lidar and infrared, that people are just barely scratching the surface for surveys on bridges, you know, where you can send a pilot out to take a full scan versus two people. I mean, the cool thing about the drone industry is it's just growing extremely laterally, you know, there's some that are growing vertically, but missing people shooting Lidar and find old Mayan ruins. I mean, it's just amazing, I keep hearing these new things that come out. And I'm like, Man, I'm gonna do that. So to the drone industry, and the drone manufacturers made it extremely easy for a person and a consumer to pick up a drone and learn to fly it. So what was once the artistic aspect of making sure the footage was captured correctly, is now kind of slowly starting to get moved to the side, because you can shoot in auto. And guess what the pictures video look pretty dang good. There's editing software's that are coming out, they're actually AI driven, you can put in certain clips, and it'll know that based on previous videos, that's how the flow goes. And so it's a very long way of answering your question, but I think where it's going is, you know, there's this interesting separation between the equipment, and then the pilot. And then the third part. The third part is, you know, the application. So it's becoming easier pilot. There is some, there's some importance on the data management. But that seems to be where I feel like is the separating line, you know, you everybody knows a kid down the street, they can put his drone up and take some pictures. But when you come back and say, Look, we're licensed, we're insured, we're not a one man shop, and we have all this data to back it up, it makes it a little easier, I think for clients vendors to say, Yeah, we want to see you as a partner. Because there is a lot of, there's a, there's a ton of different layers of intricacies that, that come down to the data and shot and high quality and high resolution, you know, takes up storage and but but I do, I think there's a huge potential for the growth. And the best way to sum it up is I would say, you know, commercializing the one man band, or woman band, you know, a lot of times we see somebody get a drone, they start working, and then they don't see the everything around the business that they need to develop. So, one of the

Ed Mysogland  12:29
challenges and, and you and I, you and I worked on this a little bit was, was value. And, and and I'll be the first guy, and I am happy to eat my words, I'm so glad that you exited and exited so well. But I'm sitting here going, Holy, holy moly, what is the barrier from every person just getting in this business? And, and so I think that's where I want to go from, from growth to, you know, in this business, what did you see is, as the components of value that made it made an exit viable. Alright, so what what created that value? I think the I know, we're not saying we're not talking names, but I do think that you have a great name.

Andrew Wahl  13:22
Yeah, no, thank you. That was that was always a big one, something like Aaron was excited about. So I think, you know, coming from the business brokerage industry, you learn things like a name isn't necessarily doesn't necessarily carry value. Client List, there's certain things contracts in place, you know, there's, it's hard to assign a value on that. So when I'm going back through everything, I kind of just tried to flip the script a little bit and say, Okay, if I was going, if I'm a drone guy, and I'm going to buy a drone company, why am I buying this drone company. So what I did is I immediately took any contracts in place, I tried to really set up a scenario to show these buyers that look, you're coming into a into an industry that is seasonal, and you're in India. So on average, you have 99 sign days a year, I'm actually kind of scared if I'm a buyer, not knowing what I know in the drill, because it's it is risky. So, you know, obviously the cash flow was a was a big driver of value. But then what we also tried to do is take equipment, we have some static cameras on site that have helped us subsidize some lower cash flow in months in the winter. You know, but ultimately, I tried to position it to where, you know, another drone, most drone companies in town do not cash flow through the year. I would I would bet to say it's very challenging to have those repeat projects when it's not it's not nicer. And so, that was a huge driver for me was when I talked to buyers, you know, it's it wasn't just a price it was this is what you're buying, this is what you're coming into. This is why I feel like this value, you know, is because where it's at, and we didn't have a lot of comps, we didn't have a whole lot of things to compare it to. We looked at several and across the nation and they were honestly all over the board, I'd love to see if any of those have sold. But I feel like we had a we had a good valuation, it was very just Bible, everything worked, worked fine through the lending. And so, to me that, to me that, yeah,

Ed Mysogland  15:26
that's the deal. Pencil. Yeah, the deal penciled out. And, you know, having been in this business, as long as I have, you know, sometimes you sit there and you're like, this business should sell. Alright. And and when I looked at at your business, I'm sitting here going, you know, it's got all the ingredients that that would, would make me cringe, and it would limit the buyer pool. All right, that you really had. I'm not the it, you know, most buyers, as you know, I mean, there's there's such a wide breadth of buyers, that that could have been a candidate for this. And I think, as I, as I continue to see, see the industry, you know, and this is where my next question is going is, you know, I know you had employees versus versus independent contractors, right. That's what how you ran your business. I know, in the creative world, most most types of creatives, so to speak, run independent contractors. And so I think that's another difference of your business is that I think what made it saleable was that you control the quality, you know what I mean, as opposed to just an independent contractor hoping that their skill set was was sufficient to get the job done? So that's, that's my question is what made you what made you take on employees as opposed to diversify your risk with independent contractors where, like, you're saying, if things, things got slow, you could you can immediately jettison these guys. Yeah. So what made you do that?

Andrew Wahl  17:17
Yeah, it's a great question we've, we've played around with boats over the years. Obviously, when you have independent contractors, you can control your margins. What you can't control is the independent contractors. So what we found was, when people call it on a sunny day, you know, you're tracking down independent contractor, or you're at their mercy of what their schedule holds. Yeah. Especially during the peak months in the summer, it's an absolute no brainer to have full time employees on staff. Hands down. Now, the challenge is right around the end of November, when everybody locks down, and your cash flow goes to the floor. So we've actually struggled in the past couple years, we made a conscious decision to keep our employees on. And what we did was we made a slight adjustment on the hours they worked, but they might be lower in the winter, they might be a little higher in the summer. But what we found was that, yeah, when you can have a little bit more control over the employees and a sense of not necessarily control, the more reliability that came in this morning that the you know, somebody wanted to get get something on, I think at 10am, they call us at nine, thankfully, we're able to staff it, you're not going to get that with an independent contractor. And then to your second point about the quality control, I mean, it's one thing to talk about the piloting the drone flight, it's a whole nother thing to talk about something out the editing, because you really have to have a kind of essential unit that all the quality control is going through. And if you don't, you're going to be all over the board based on who that editor or data Wrangler is.

Ed Mysogland  18:59
But well, that's interesting, you say that, because one of the things that, that in similar type businesses, you know, people are going to Fiverr people are going to Upwork people are going to want that there's another there's another third one smaller, that you know, where you can, where you can just upload, you know, I need this edited, you know, here's the scope of work, you know, why didn't you go that route? Because to me, it would have it would have made the company even more profitable, but it's just total quality controller? Yeah, I

Andrew Wahl  19:32
think it is. And I think at some point, it's, it's letting go of some of the internal control, you know, so you can take two scenarios. One is, Andrew is running the company, he's working with the clients, he's doing the project management, and then he's working with the vendors. And then scenario two is Chandra runs a company, he brings the project and he brings his team in and, you know, you kind of share the workload. And I think that's what ultimately came down for me. You know, client wants to hop on a call Have a review video. And you're trying to coordinate with somebody in India or another part of the world that, you know, it's not going to they're not able to get a phone. But you're not you're not a team at that point.

Ed Mysogland  20:14
You know what? That's a great, that's a great point. Because I think a lot of a lot of businesses like yours that that end up being unsalable is, is just because of that, that it's cobbled together, it may, it may have great margins, it may print money, but at the end of the day, if if you don't have those internal controls, and you don't, especially when you're when you're working at the level you are, you know where you know, where you see some of your work on television, you see some of your work, you know, in, in higher quality, no, venue, so to speak. I think that's where I think that's the dip or real difference is that there's, I don't say, company versus a hobby, but I do, I think, I think when you start adding payroll, and you start adding quality control, and you start adding process and procedure and things like that, you then turn, then turn, what was a Christmas present into a real business, you know, yeah. And I think

Andrew Wahl  21:27
that, sorry, I was gonna say, I think, you know, at the good, it's about putting the right people in the right places. And, you know, there was a point when I was doing the video editing early on, when someone had asked me, Can you take this video clip and make put our logo on there? You know, it was a, it was exciting for me, it was fun. But then I looked up one day, and I'm like, What am I doing? I'm not a video editor. It kind of goes, the comp plays the same tune with subcontractors. You kind of want you want somebody that is an expert that doesn't join as a hobby, so that they're coming to you saying I thought about this, what do you think about this, and if you try to commercialize it too much, and you put it in a box, and you rinse and repeat, your product becomes, you know, becomes stale. And so I always tried to push that early on for even if we weren't cashflow as much I wanted to keep the team and because I knew that the guys that hired were rockstars. And

Ed Mysogland  22:21
tactically, man, that's, that was a great, great decision. And to be honest with you. I totally believe that's why it's so 100 I think,

Andrew Wahl  22:30
very, very much helped. And, and we'll get on this later. Yeah, but but it almost caused some complications with the sale, believe it or not. So well,

Ed Mysogland  22:40
then, let's, let's talk about the value where now now that now it's behind you. Where did where was the value?

Andrew Wahl  22:48
The value? The dollar amount? No, no,

Ed Mysogland  22:52
no, no. What? What was the where were the value drivers in the business? Tell me, tell me what you now that you're behind it. Why did this business sell? And I'm certain there's three or four things that that made it that that made? So

Andrew Wahl  23:07
yep. So you know, I think, first off, the fact that it was a more than one person company was was interesting. It was, you know, the dust settled, there was a good chain of hierarchy. So that was one. Two was the constant contacts and clients that we had. So over the whatever call it 10 years, I think we had developed and worked with over 1200 different clients. I mean, that was anybody kind of an industry that has 1200 to work off day one that we've worked with, I thought was helpful, extreme value. from a technological standpoint, our software, project management software was all cloud based set up very clean. Our accounting was set up, social media was updated websites were clean and loaded well. And so I think from that perspective, you know, then, arguably the biggest driver was the way that we were in taking new opportunities. About a year and a half ago, I made a conscious decision that I needed to start, I needed to stop being the total face of about a year and a half ago, it made a constant conscious decision to you know, slowly kind of step out of the limelight of being the main face of the company. And as much as I hated doing that, because I do love the sales and I do love to problem solve, what it helped us realize and or what helped us achieve was, you know, another level of separation where it wasn't. It wasn't just Andrew Wallace company it was. This is a company that's known. This is a company we've heard, and then these people were going to our website to fill out form so it was Again, day one for a new buyer, you're gonna get an email or two that week of new projects. And then the final ones, I think, the employees in place, we had equipment out on the field, as far as camera construction cameras. So those are recurring expenses and recurring revenue, recurring revenue, and yeah, no expense and recurring revenue. And then obviously, the contracts, you know, we have a couple of contracts in place. That was some good clients. And you know, so when you come into it, if you have cash flow, you have labor, you have incoming leads, start running out of room to the blog deal.

Ed Mysogland  25:47
So did you do a lot? From a marketing standpoint? Were you more geared? digitally? Or were you belly to belly sales?

Andrew Wahl  26:00
Yeah, good question. I mean, so I really enjoy networking, and events in person. So there was some stuff, especially early on, I mean, that early on, it was it was boots on the ground, shaking trees, pounding the pavement, Dan doubt, no question about it. As we developed over the years have won, I got burnout on that. In two, I started realizing, you know, hey, if these clients, we want the good clients, we want the tech savvy clients that are, you know, we're a drone company, we can't be cold calling. And so we made a change, we updated the website, we created a couple forms that we did intake. And I think at that point was it was a milestone for us, you know, we're all we've always been a younger company, but kind of letting go and understanding, hey, people are going to come in this way. And even if they don't fill out the form and get kicked off, they're probably not a good client, you know, if a client's not going to fill out five questions, we're not gonna call him back. And so at one point, it was it was good, everything that moves, and then it became kind of slowly putting the shot in our way, pulling out the rifle and saying, Hey, there's a million dollar project going on over here. Why are we not doing something? Versus the Colorado residential real estate firms that are kind of race to the bottom?

Ed Mysogland  27:16
So that's, that's funny, you said, so one of the things that, that I wanted to ask you was, was that you were the face of the company. And I know, over the last year and a half, that you've stopped being that person. So then, my question is, from a scalability standpoint, I have to believe that the buyer, or the buyers that you, you, you interviewed, or as candidates to acquire,

Andrew Wahl  27:52
we're probably pretty

Ed Mysogland  27:53
worried about it. You know, so how did you get around? You? You being that guy?

Andrew Wahl  27:59
Yeah. Well, I think one, you know, every every business transaction was a little different. I think. One of the, I guess, outside the box, things we talked about early on was that I was very much, I was very adamant that I was very adamant that the company continues to succeed. And depending on who, what buyer, I talk to me, depending on where we go with our conversations, I made that pretty clear upfront that listen, I understand there's a hesitation here. This is my baby. I've been in I've been with for the last 10 years. I'm sure there's some concerns. What I've realized what I would have told myself back then is that with technology, and where we think that you know, the transition is much easier than I think a lot of sellers and buyers truly understand. And I'll give you just a quick, real simple, real quick, like, with this fire, one of the first thing we did was getting access to email, well, I'll back up just a second, this ended up being a stock sale versus an asset sale, which was a little different. And it makes it a lot of countries are interesting. But also it makes the transition 100 times easier. And so by getting the buyer access to email by giving the buyer access to the accounting software 80% of any questions and follow up during transition are going to probably be answered if not more, right, because you have a history of everything is gone.

Ed Mysogland  29:29
Is that is that business specific? Or do you think that's in general, like that? The the way you structure the transition, you know, in this case, you you said it was a stock sale, which which is fine. But as an asset, so you could have offered the same thing. Yeah, you know, so.

Andrew Wahl  29:54
So tell me about that. So yeah, I think you know, to sum it up, I What I've learned is that I think buyers and sellers, both going into this exiting a business or purchasing a business, that there's a lot of there's a lot of concerns about how people are going to take news, how people are going to transition. And, you know, I would be lying if I, if I said, there wasn't some concern on myself and the buyers part, but I think it's all about how you deliver the information. And, again, flipping the script, putting yourself in their shoes. So when you go to a client, you introduce the new buyer, you explain how things are gonna be run, you explained that you're still going to be involved to whatever degree that is. And then, you know, in a perfect world, maybe it's been like that for a few weeks. So they didn't have even notice a change in quality. But, you know, again, at the time, I tried to reassure them, I'm here to help any way I can. I'm here to make any introductions. I'm here to help smooth anything over. But at the end of the day, you know, I think it's a good lesson from the buy side as well. It's a race that the buyer runs. And fortunately for me, the buyer that came in said, Look, I understand that when you when I come in here in purchases, clients might walk, employees might walk. But we've again, both had enough conversation upfront to say realistically, I think if we deliver it this way, why would they? You know, there's, there's

Ed Mysogland  31:22
so expound on that. So So what was, what do you think, though, the one thing that you did in transition, made the difference in retention of employees? Yeah, just kind of calm the fears. What is is there any one thing that stuck out that you know what, this is probably why it's going as well as it is?

Andrew Wahl  31:48
Yeah, this is gonna be a super corny answer. But I think the reason is because it was authentic. From the beginning, even before I listed the business, I knew in my head that I was not going to sell to the first person, I was not going to sell to a big corporate client or a corporate account, I was going to sell to somebody that was going to come in and take this, take care of the clients, take care of employees, and then grow it. And so that was my story the whole time, and still has been my story. While I've told the employees while I've told vendors live to clients, you know, hey, this is not a fire sale, and I'm out and I met before, you'll never see me again. This was this was the right time. It was a tough decision. But it was the right decision. And I 100% stand behind the decision and purchase and acquisition. And if somebody wants to jump ship for that, we'd love to talk to him that rally is on this trip, we really left a no reason to. Yeah,

Ed Mysogland  32:51
but that it's funny you say that. So what did prompt you? Why did you decide you want to sell? What? Well, one event? Or you know, I know that I know that you're spread pretty thin. But what what finally, what, what triggered that?

Andrew Wahl  33:08
Yeah. Well, it was it was a combination of things. I would say, you know, I got in commercial real estate a little over two and a half years ago. That was a new industry that I got it. And then I had some experience. And but I really found that I enjoyed it. And I had found some success in there early on. About a year after getting into real estate and getting some some feet under me. I get a call from India Business Advisors says like should come join them. So

Ed Mysogland  33:39
that's a good decision. That was

Andrew Wahl  33:42
a great decision. As to jobs are the top of your add on? Yeah, on the company. That's three shots, here. And on Yeah, mark that. Yep, I got it. So after joining Indiana business advisors, along with commercial real estate, that brings me up to three jobs. I'm fortunate enough that I'm able to sit on a few boards locally. And then my greatest achievement accomplishment is my two children under two and a half years old that had become extremely fun on a day to day basis. And I just realized between eight of those things you know, as much as it pains me was the was the obvious bottleneck, not only for my life that you know, it's not not necessarily fair to say for my life, but for the company's potential. I mean, I I knew that there was a huge potential. We weren't turning jobs down but I definitely wasn't doing what I should have been from a business development and staffing perspective. And so you know, it. It made sense to put it on the market at the time to start working through buyers. Knowing that here in the next few years with Giga ton exit. So out

Ed Mysogland  35:04
of all eight, why didn't you? Why didn't you double down on the aerial business? What What made you what what made? What made you sell it as opposed to in I'm gonna I'm gonna get commercial real estate I'm gonna get out of business brokerage, and I'm gonna put all my eggs in one basket.

Andrew Wahl  35:22
You're gonna call me up millennials. I have no, I have been running since 2000. Really probably 12 I had a few businesses in college, I've always loved business development. I've been a deal junkie, from the first time I had a deal. And I'm tired. I'm so tired of the day to day. And I think it was manageable without kids. Anybody out there with kids that are three is gonna is gonna relate to me immediately. But it just, it was too thin. I was spread too thin. And I think I did it long enough. Knowing that I was busy. I like being busy. I like when people need me. It just got to a point where I needed to prioritize things better. And I just wasn't I was dropping too many balls in too many different areas. And they, the aerial photography company is a Go Go Go all the time. There's, again, especially being seasonal, especially having an average of nine, nine Sundays a year in Indiana. You have to be on it. And if not, they're going to call somewhere else. I mean, that's when you get that form. It's on. And weather changes, schedule changes. So, you know, I think we're we like it, I think where we could have done better was to expand our levels of management a little better. But, again, we went down that path a few times, and it'd be in an industry. Labor markets a little tough right now. Yeah, I guess. So.

Ed Mysogland  37:04
So I pulled I pulled the data on, on, you know, how many? How many buyers you went through? And there were a bunch. Now there? You had a ton of active? I guess?

Andrew Wahl  37:17
How many total? Yeah.

Ed Mysogland  37:19
There was like 73. Wow, 73 people that that haven't been interest in an aerial photography.

Andrew Wahl  37:28
So Hey, real quick, before we get on that, I want to make a note, I promised myself I'd make a note, during this podcast somewhere. This is this is relevant to any business owner. But I want to make sure I said this. I was very hesitant at the time. I was I was very hesitant about a year ago to put put the company on the market. I think like many sellers, I was worried that employees were gonna find out clients, etc. The one thing that I would like to make sure I got across is that it was so helpful for me to have a business listed at the back early on and to be talking to buyers because not every buyer was timewise ready, they weren't interested about the business, but they said, Hey, if you you know, six months a year, here's my events happening in life, I want to I want to stay in touch with you. And it just allowed a much, I think much more enjoyable experience, because it wasn't there was no rush, there was no, you know, buyers, quote unquote, beat me up or trying to come in at a basement for a price it was it was just a much better conversation between buyers.

Ed Mysogland  38:40
Well, you went you went through you went through a bunch. And I mean, when you have a full service brokerage experience, I mean, that's, that's, that's the whole point is that it enables you to, to run your business or in your case, all your businesses, and, you know, and and it helps to have a team alongside of you to, you know, to kind of separate the wheat from the chaff and the thing and but circling back to those buyers. I mean, you you had you talked a lot to to a lot of different buyers. And I'm just curious to know, were there any particular questions that everybody like, when any particular questions that anybody? Yeah, there was a commonality. These are the these are the normal questions that I was that I was getting, because those that are in other drone shops are picked up, pick the tangent type industry, they're going to be faced with the similar question. So I'm curious to know what those questions were and and how you handled them. And were there any questions that made you uncomfortable?

Andrew Wahl  39:55
Yeah. Well, I think, you know, compared to a state Under if you're a business owner, you've done this a few times, I think it starts to all blend together in some way, right? What are you doing in revenue? What's your cash flow? What's your add backs? What's your operating expenses? So that all that's pretty standard? I think a lot of the questions initially were, how's this working? What are you doing? Obviously, a lot of people know, aerial photography drones. But they didn't know if this was a repairing, if this was a selling, you know, so I'm funny enough, a lot of it was just people, they're like, I'm interested, what, you know, what do you got going on here? You know, you're doing, here's your revenue, and you got this really cool book. And, you know, what, what's happening? So I think, I don't know that I had a bigger question. I would say one of the biggest stopping points, a lot of my conversations was the buyers realized, or they, they assumed that they need to have this this wealth of knowledge in the Drone World. And I think that that's correct. But I also tried to explain that, you know, it's just one of those things is new, and it's boring, but it's an area of opportunity, if you can understand it. It's not a huge book of rules and information. It's just, there's some some foreign things that you got to understand. And it'll tell you right now, it's not rocket science. So I think there was some times that I was trying to sell people on, you know, hey, don't Don't sell yourself short. I, you can learn this, you can understand this. But But yeah,

Ed Mysogland  41:26
but is that is that a seller saying? You know what, you can do this no big deal. And because I think a lot of buyers sit there and go, Yeah, you're so full of crap out there, there is no way I'm going to be able to do what you do. Yeah. Yeah. When you start when you start talking big money, and personal guarantees, and loans, and so on, and so forth. Yeah, you're sitting there going? If I'm the buyer, I'm like, you know, is this is this guy being transparent with me? Or is he just saying this, so I'll buy his business?

Andrew Wahl  41:56
Totally 100%. And so, you know, I tried to show that, here's our levels of internal process, you know, I do the sales, if you're a buyer, you know how to talk to them on the phone, check that box, once you put the project in, the pilot takes it, it gets kicked over the editor editor takes it gets kicked back to you send it back. You know, I I try not to downplay it, I have a lot of drone experience. But I've I've not lied in the sense of I've not done a drone shoot for the company in two years, three years, you know, and if I did, that was probably the last one, five or six. And so it's not like, the owner has to have a license and be very, you know, understanding now, I'd like to talk about that one for a second. Because this, this proofs and challenges, you know, potentially brought us complications, we had several buyers that were saying, Hey, I'm a pilot, and I want this, you know, I want to this would be great for me to buy and grow. And, you know, one of the first first few conversations was like, hey, you know, you know, yeah, we wouldn't, we would just remove the pilot day one or week two, or whatever we learn from them, and then we'd kind of loose. I'm like, Well, you know, so I guess my point is that, I don't know that a drone pilot was the buyer, because a drone pilot is going to be good at drums, a drone pilots going to be good at flying mapping, etc. drone pilots, not necessarily a good business owner. But a lot of them have had enough time to be a good business owner. And so I think a lot, it's a lot of those conversations quickly died, because, you know, it would be they wanted to do that, and they want to hire me to stay on or, you know, just I didn't see how they were going to accomplish that by coming in and just taking the revenue and the clients, right. I mean, that's just one one piece of the pie. Yeah. What?

Ed Mysogland  44:04
Speaking of buyer types, so, you know, when, as you know, whenever we launch a business, we and we're, we're kind of evaluating the avatar of this is the likely buyer of your individuals, and then you have your strategics in your case.

Andrew Wahl  44:20
So what I guess,

Ed Mysogland  44:24
if I had to bet I thought, I thought for sure, and a strategic was going to gobble you up and and just put you on top of the, you know, put at part of their service offering. But it wasn't, it was an individual so I'm curious to know,

Andrew Wahl  44:40
you know, what, because I think

Ed Mysogland  44:43
when when, when we when this gets released and other shops like yours, hear this, you know, I think they're probably going to wonder, you know, who is my buyer so, so tell me a little bit about why you weren't appealing to The larger shops and what and what made you, you know, what was the avatar, the guy that that finally bought it? Sure,

Andrew Wahl  45:07
well, the drone industry is kind of interesting right now, because any of the big players are, for the most part purely subcontract, and everything. So you have some major national players that have contracts with real estate firms, developers, etc. Where they provide nationwide coverage, we do the exact same thing. What that means is that we say we can do a shoot anywhere we have shoots couple times in Florida every month, we have some out on the West Coast, we've done shoots in probably 1010 or more states, what that means that you're able to control the project and run the project by subbing out. So for a large company, like that strategically to purchase US would make sense only in the only in the ways of the contact with the contracts client list, and maybe our marketing, but the marketing is invaluable, because they're going to bring in their stuff they want. So to be honest, I'm running along there with you, I thought we'd have two or three strategics lined up saying we got to have it Sure, just write a check be done. So if I had to guess I think that's the biggest hole back is that they're going to, they're going to purchase this and then they're going to sit there and say, Okay, who's gonna run it, you know, who we're going to send to Indiana, to be the face to run it, and to be seen? from a strategic standpoint. You know, I was lucky with the buyer that came in, I didn't realize this time, but it started to make sense, but came from a real estate and construction background. So had had it's been 20 years in the construction industry, traveling all around the nation. And locally, you know, so for me day one, if I'm him, and I have a client list, and then I come in and bring my own clients. You don't say it's foolproof, but I mean, yeah, we'll spend money on it. And so, so the relationships, I think how,

Ed Mysogland  47:06
you know, the funny thing is, and I have to eat my words again, but now that now that we're behind it, and, and I'm I'm looking at your deal, you know,

Andrew Wahl  47:17
we, we I think we

Ed Mysogland  47:21
looked at it more as a as a, as a marketing, photography business. And I think, and I think that was the mistake to not miss it all ended well. But I think from a in look in doing an autopsy of your deal, I think this is more of a, almost like a survey type company, that it falls more than this. And I say that only because it leads to where you found your buyer, because now we're looking at more of a construction related ancillary service, you know, and I get them the whole marketing side. But But generally speaking, you're talking about typography, and you're talking about, you know, you know, encapsulating color, you know, the company's culture, and so on, so forth. That's the creative part. But as far as where you find the buyer, I think the, the type of buyer, you found, is the type of buyer that's going to buy other businesses like this. You don't I mean, or am I off?

Andrew Wahl  48:30
No, I think you're on. I do have to, I'd have to correct you. We can't say surveying, that's that's a note on the drum roll. Because we have surveyors that don't like us, because we can scan from our drones. So this adds up. We're

Ed Mysogland  48:46
family. All right. But I but I, I will, I will, I will correct you. pologize to all the surveyors out there. Yeah. I'm not striking that. Yeah,

Andrew Wahl  48:59
they're super, super sensitive. We've, we've had a couple run ins with some that are mad, we're playing in their sandbox. But

Ed Mysogland  49:07
I say, I think you

Andrew Wahl  49:09
are, I think you're correct in that sense of the construction of the construction industry, in my opinion, has so much opportunity. And with one of the things that helped originally and off the bat was I tried to sit down with these contractors and just say, you know, what is helpful. And a perfect example is, you know, hey, every two weeks, we have a weekly standing meeting on Wednesday at nine with the client and the stakeholders. So we started adjusting our shoots to go Tuesday afternoon. And so we could send them to him that night, Friday, Wednesday morning, they get loaded up in the report. We were we were awesome for them. I mean, they were they were praising us left and right. And it was a tiny little changes that we could make. The reason I say that is because it just really comes down to understanding once you get into an industry and I think with the drums it's so new. It's so innovative. It's so rapidly changing that, you do have to kind of rely on your clients to say, You know what, here's the tools that we can provide, how can we help you. And you're both kind of learning together. But in my opinion, that was always the best projects because we were collaborating together. And then we were ultimately providing what they needed, and that they were taking that look at better. And it was just a true partnership. And so to bring this all back to what you what your question was about on as far as the buyers and being that construction world, I think 100% Having those relationships and those industries, where you can pick up the phone and say, hey, you know, I know, you guys have these projects going on? How are you handling this? Or are you getting questions, they handle this? Every single year, more and more companies are coming out saying we need pre construction documentation from the drone, we need this and this and XYZ and just because the technology is there, and it really does makes no sense not to happen. So I think going back to your question with the buyer, I mean, yeah, at least he has his finger on the pulse with the industry, what's coming up, what's being needed, and then they come back channel go right to them, and then provide the service. So

Ed Mysogland  51:14
but I think I think there's, there's a mentality, you know, project management, in the in the trades is it complements this drone industry? Really? Well, absolutely. is kind of the way I see it. So I have a couple more questions on. I guess my first one is, were you surprised

Andrew Wahl  51:38
at valuation? You know,

Ed Mysogland  51:42
I think I think it came I think it came in as a as a as a fair deal. I think, you know, I think everybody walked away happy. But I guess, as you look at valuation now, you know, what's your, what's your thoughts on where the buyer assessed risk? Because that that determined value? All right. So where, what do you think of that now?

Andrew Wahl  52:12
Now, it's your bind. So, you know, I have to I have probably just under two years of business brokerage experience. So I think one of the real quick just one of the biggest things that I noticed coming into the industry was That was how few sellers actually understood valuation and cashflow. I think a lot of owners aren't in the numbers, and they ought to understand. So for me, beginning, I wanted to just understand what the value was, I didn't care what it was, I just wanted to know, believe it or not, up until that point few years ago, I just had no idea we had our heads down, we've been plugging along and pulling a little bit out where we can, but really just investing in the business to grow it. And so I can tell you the valuation that came in early on a couple years ago, and then what I sold it for, it was a significant difference. The first one was significantly lower. So I think, as far as the valuation standpoint, I wasn't surprised. You know, we worked internally and, and we were able to reduce, and I think the challenge was we didn't have a lot of comps and previous businesses to compare them to, but I think at the end of the day, the benefit of the buyer that shows the company was that they had purchased a business before and a few other businesses. And and the whole entire process of working with this buyer was different than I would have anticipated several other buyers to be, for example, in on this might be a question you're gonna if it is just just, we'll come back to it, but no, go go, for example, contracts in place, employment agreements that are in place, I did have some buyers that said, Look, I want this, I'm gonna move forward on it. But I can't close until I know these contracts get assigned. And I can't close until I know these employee agreements are in place. And, you know, it relates to a lot of business owners, because where do you draw the line? You know, I can't, I can't get I can't assign a contract before we close because what if we don't close? And why are we telling the client so, you know, there's so many things that can bog down the deal and muddy it up but I think it fortunately very fortunately everything has worked out flawlessly in our transition for the company. Clients are happy employees are happy. And I there's a part of me that thought through the process. You know, man has buyers kind of kind of taking some risk here. But I think that goes back to what I said earlier that hey, I'm in this with then we're gonna go.

Ed Mysogland  55:04
Yeah, I agree, I think that offset that offset? I think the the willingness of transition and the willingness that you know, what, I, I'm right here with you this is, this is, this is part of the sale process. And, and grant money has changed hands, but at the same time, you know, I, I'm, I think the best sellers are the ones that can empathize with the buyer, you know, that I know what you're going through and and let let me come alongside of you and make sure that you get off on the best foot. So the next question was had to do with due diligence, I know you had clean books, because that's just who you are. How do you I know most sellers cringe at the thought of of the, you know, the scrutiny over how they run their business did? How did due diligence go for you?

Andrew Wahl  56:00
Well, it went a lot easier because it was a stock sale versus an asset sale. So there was no contracts that needed to be assigned. There is no employee agreement. Yeah. But

Ed Mysogland  56:10
but if I'm, if I'm the buyer, I'm sitting here gone. I also have all the contingent liabilities. So due diligence became even more important. Yeah. Now there was if Andrew Wall was, was a bad boy in a previous life, I have his sins. So. So how to

Andrew Wahl  56:28
sew back. Carry on. Yeah, I mean, so there was some things that made it easier as far as the assignment of several things. But then yes, you're pointing when you go through a stock sale, there's there's different things that become challenging. Although sale, so I would say, you know, arguably, we've probably spent more time post close, finalizing things up, you know, accounts getting finalized, and in different things like that. But no, I mean, as far as the due diligence, gosh, again, I was fortunate there really wasn't a heavy, there was a heavy list. But since I had talked with buyers before, since we had all of our stuff ready to go. I mean, it was it was a fairly straightforward process. And I think the work on his part was private, not even the ATA. But I mean, that's usually a half a week turnaround itself. So it was a bit of time, we mostly on the back end. So I can't say everybody

Ed Mysogland  57:38
well, broker gods look favorably upon you.

Andrew Wahl  57:40
Yeah, yeah. So

Ed Mysogland  57:46
So what surprised you out? So you, you've now taken to take in your own deal from start to finish? So you know, what surprised you in this whole thing as a business owner?

Andrew Wahl  57:58
I think. I don't know if that's anything surprising, I think. I think it's fair. It's a very surreal thing. This is probably I think this is my third business. I started third or fourth, by far the most successful and then the only one that I've been able to successfully exit from. And I can tell you, I never thought about exit probably until two years ago, it wouldn't even have crossed my mind. I had I had gotten calls from Business Brokers, and I told him to go screw off and I just had no interest in even accommodating the idea of selling and I think that's been the most enlightening and surreal thing for me because I just always assumed that when I was ready, I was going to just go sell it for a million bucks or whatever, right? And there's no true correlation between what what is my business worth? What am I doing, you know, what if it's worth 50,000 bucks? Am I going to keep doing this until I realize it? So I think, you know, as an entrepreneur, you put your head down you work hard, you get to a point life starts changing. And so for me two years ago was a was an interesting point, a couple of my head up and said what do I have? where's this going? What's the plan and then from there, you know, the house familiar with With iPAS, marketing and process so I know we put a good book together I just knew that if but actually I haven't heard on this podcast. I feel horrible for not remember the lady's name but actually sparked my my interest and put it up online and saying, Hey, here's my price. And I'm not in any hurry to sell or mount any. You know, I'm gonna let this thing ride. And so I think it was doing that. There was countless nights of staying up wondering is this going to sell? If it doesn't, what am I going to do? What are they? What do I do with the employees the equipment, you know, they're what I do with the contracts in place. I mean, so there was a it was a it was an extreme roller coaster, emotional roller coaster. I think you know, and this was just a family Hate to say a side business I started in grew. And so I, I think the thing that I was surprised about, to be honest, is that it all worked out. I mean, everything worked out honestly, probably about as best as I could I could have imagined. And, you know, it's still surreal. I still an imminent transition. And so I feel like, but, you know, so far

Ed Mysogland  1:00:22
as good. I was gonna ask you that, you know, what, when the wire hit your account?

Andrew Wahl  1:00:32
I mean, what would you think? Yeah, it was. I mean, again, it was kind of surreal. I had just got back from a vacation a week long vacation in Montana. And I was in a wedding that day, so I probably needed to see the see a hippo.

Ed Mysogland  1:00:46
Right. Yeah. So yeah, it was, uh, so. You know, but now, you you hadn't sobered up before the before the wire hit?

Andrew Wahl  1:00:57
No, no, I had to double check and make sure I have the right phone in my pocket. But, you know, yeah, it is surreal. I had a month of transition. So that was that ended in July. And so there's just a couple of things we're still doing. But, you know, I'm really, really looking forward to getting some time back, spend some more time on the Business Brokers commercial real estate side. And, you know, fortunately, this buyer, he's, he's opened the door for, if I bring new opportunities in, you know, there's an opportunity to get some additional revenue on my end, and then he's gonna keep me in an advising role. So it's just nice. Yeah, if I had a magic wand, it completely worked out. Because selfishly I

Ed Mysogland  1:01:39
yeah, I was gonna say that sounds like you found you found the right guy. And it's gonna be a long term relationship. And then that's great. Yeah. So I'm bumping up on time. So I want to be sensitive to it. So if I always ask this question about, about what's the one piece of advice that you'd give our listeners that would have the most immediate impact on their business? What would that be for

Andrew Wahl  1:02:04
you thought about this one. And I think I think this is the one I leave everybody. The best advice that I ever received was that Ball State was from a professor, my sales professors name was Scott Jennings. And he related the whole entire semester into, you know, ultimately everything can be it can be broken down into two basic things. And that's relationships and numbers. And I'm trying to whatever I do in life, relate that back to what I'm doing. You know, in a sense of creating and maintaining strong relationships, and then understanding numbers that are working through your business. And I think if you can maintain those two things, whether it's employee relationships, vendor relationships, your relationships at home, and if you can understand the numbers, you're going to be okay. And that's been one thing that I've tried to really implement in my day to day. Is that good? Is that okay?

Ed Mysogland  1:03:04
You know, I think that's a good way to live, whether you're selling your business or living your life, I absolutely think there. Yeah, everything falls back through relationships.

Andrew Wahl  1:03:13
I will say, the business realized, real quick, the business advice, if you're a business owner, is you need to understand your evaluate the value of your business, no matter if you're trying to sell. If you're ready now, ready. 10 years from now, someone's gonna give you a call or knock on your door. And I promise you, you want to know that number. And we can help you come up with that number.

Ed Mysogland  1:03:35
Well, what's the best way we can connect with you?

Andrew Wahl  1:03:38
Well, I just deleted all my social media, but I am on LinkedIn. So you get me on LinkedIn. Um, if you want me to put myself on

Ed Mysogland  1:03:49
WhatsApp, we'll have all of your contact information in the show notes. But so best place to find us on LinkedIn

Andrew Wahl  1:03:58
yet, connect with me on LinkedIn, reach out my cell phone it available really anytime. And we'd love to connect and ultimately love to help anybody else out there that's trying to navigate through this process. And I can tell you, it's not as overwhelming and daunting as you'd think. And the other side of screen.

Ed Mysogland  1:04:17
So, you know, one thing I failed to mention is age. I mean, you're what you're 32 right?

Andrew Wahl  1:04:26
3033 October 32.

Ed Mysogland  1:04:31
You know, and and to be honest with you, I see a lot a lot more of your age group buying and selling companies quickly starting something and being able to and I I love that boy or not, you know and and if I haven't said it enough, you know, I'm I'm thrilled to death that you're you're part of our team. I think I think the the future resides in in you and folks like you I just cuz I think it's one of the best decisions I've made. So

Andrew Wahl  1:05:04
yeah, well, I appreciate that. While we're hitting each other on the back, you know, we got a I think we did you know, kudos right. This is the You just dropped your 90th episode on the podcast, right? Something like that. Wow. That's impressive. It really is. Well, you know what?

Ed Mysogland  1:05:24
Well, thank you I, I hope, I hope many people get some value from it, and or whether whether many or one it's it's a, it's a, it's a good place to share some, some some nuggets and get to talk to people like you. So thanks for joining me. It was fun.

Andrew Wahl  1:05:45
Thanks for having me. I really, really, really enjoyed talking to you today. And yeah, really happy to be to be part of this list with the other 9090 plus people who have been on so thanks again for having me on.

Ed Mysogland  1:06:01
You've got you've got stiff competition as far as we'll see what kind of numbers you bring. But no, no one as transparent as you were, I have a feeling you're this episode's gonna be really great. So yeah, thanks again. But

Andrew Wahl  1:06:14
all right, we'll talk to you soon. See you.