EP 105: How Company Culture is an Asset to Business Value with Amber Fields

Ed Mysogland  0:19  
Welcome to another episode of defenders business value. I'm your host, Ed Mysogland. And today's episode, this one's an awesome one. For those long term lists, long term listeners I have at the end of every episode, I asked the guest, and uh, what if you could, you could give advice to our listeners that would have the greatest impact on their value and saleability, what would it be, and overwhelmingly, it's either, you know, get the business owner out of out of the driver's seat, you know, make the business less relying on them, or be pour into their people. And so today, we're pouring into people. And that is with ampere fields, Amber fields is from an organization called true you. And they, they help they have a community, they have coaching, they have a, a wide breadth of services that aid in pouring into developing people. And the reason number one, the reason I wanted to have Amber is her transparency, she is as as good as they come. And, you know, she's a great leader in that organization. Because when you talk to her, and you'll hear it in the in the podcast, that she's just very articulate, very, very deliberate, and very transparent in the things that she's that she says. And second is that she cares that the she buys into their mission of where this is going, and it's one person at a time. And that, to me is the most important part of what we do here. And on this podcast, is every business, you know, there's a business owner or business owners. But that org chart is also important. And that's why we want people like Amber fields on on the podcast, because she's talking about how we can pour into that whole org chart. And how we can retain how we can grow, and how we can make that business the best it can be. So I'm certain as I always say, you'll enjoy this podcast with Amber fields of trio. Well, welcome to the show, Amber. Hi, Ed. Good morning. Good morning. Before you came on, I do my recordings. My my intros before the guests show up. And it's probably my least favorite part of this podcast. Because when I asked you to kind of introduce yourself and talk about you and your practice, it always sounds a lot better than my introduction. So you mind doing that for me? Yeah,

Amber Fields  3:13  
absolutely. So Amber fields, I'm the chief culture officer and partner of true you and ml talent strategies. And we work with organizations to solve the number one problem we find in business today. And that is attracting, engaging and developing your talents so that you can retain that top talent. So we're working with companies to help them become destination workplaces where people want to work and don't want to leave destination

Ed Mysogland  3:36  
workplace, that's a great term. And the funny thing is, when when we when we work with a lot of, you know, we work with a lot of small business owners. And I don't think they understand culture, I think that it's just a place where they get a paycheck, and I want to provide some jobs. So I guess that's where I want to start is explaining the concept of company culture and significance. Yeah,

Amber Fields  4:03  
so the way that we view culture, you know, culture is made up of your purpose, your vision and your core values. And so your purpose is Why do we exist? Why do we do what we do? The vision is where we're going. And the core values are the behaviors around that. And so your culture is made up of your most competitive advantage your people and your people want to work for places today. That's it's not just about money. It's really about the environment that the coming to work and feeling good feeling like I'm making a difference feeling like I'm using my talents. And you know, we know you've heard of it, I'm sure you're talking with your folks that you're serving the war on talent is crazy. You know, it's out there, and companies need to be working towards like I said that destination workplace and culture is where it's at. So, you know, we're focusing on helping organizations really build up their people. We believe that when you grow your people, you grow your culture. And so I'm sure we'll get into the details of what that looks like. But yeah, that's our take on what culture is.

Ed Mysogland  5:10  
The funny thing is what why don't businesses see that they have a culture? You know, and I have, and it doesn't matter the size of business, I just don't see. Yeah, you know, how, how they, how they miss it. And, and we're guilty of it here at our shop, too. I mean, we get busy doing our own things, and we kind of lose sight of what we're doing, because we're doing what we do. And yeah, but it seems as though, in talking with you, there's just there's so much more to keeping that kind of the North Star of culture going. So can you can we, how are businesses missing this? Yeah,

Amber Fields  5:50  
I think that organizations look at businesses have culture, whether they're intentional about it or not, you know, there's two types of culture, the one that you intentionally create, or the one that is created by accident. And so a lot of small businesses feel like I'll get to culture later. Well, your culture is immediately made up by the people who work and serve you. And it's made up of, you know, you, it's the behaviors. So when you're hiring somebody based on that purpose, that vision and those core values, you're setting the stage for, what environment you want to create for those employees, and they're going to behave accordingly. So if you don't set the trajectory and build and help them see the vision and build out a foundation for that, you know, they're just kind of behave based on their, their past thoughts, you know, where they've come from, you know, bringing forward their experiences, and then it gets chaotic and messy, and, you know, then then all kinds of crazy things happen. Yeah, and

Ed Mysogland  6:50  
it's funny that, I do believe, and I think when you and I originally met, we talked about the success ratio of selling companies, and I do believe that, that the lack of culture contributes to their inability to, to become saleable. And, and the funny, the funny thing is I now that I'm, I'm a little bit away from it, you know, away from it, meaning, you know, I'm looking at it from in a con in a contextual standpoint, it makes total sense on, you know, and we'll talk about it here as far as exit strategies go. But it's funny that, that, you know, it what comes first the chicken or the egg. And it seems as though it's not whether or not you can get yourself out of the business, because that's, that's, that's important. But it's the people, the talent and the culture, will facilitate you getting out of the business. And so, and I guess that's where the where I want to go next is, you know, what influences, you know, the company culture, I know, right up plastered on your website, you've got, you've got the triangle and, and you have culture in the middle, but can you talk about what contributes to an ideal company culture?

Amber Fields  8:15  
Yeah. So, you know, a lot of businesses come to the table with a finance plan, and a business plan, but they don't often have an intentional talent plan. And if you are not setting the stage, for a great talent plan, it really becomes costly on the finance and the business side, because you're spending, you're so reactive, versus being proactive. And so when you come to the table and set this trajectory, and you really build out an intentional talent plan, it's really going to help because you're going to hire based on this, you're going to measure performance, you're going to fire based on you know, your, your those, those three things that I mentioned. And so, you know, I think it's what really brings the value because when when companies are coming under evaluation and looking, if you've got a, you know, where your finances go like this, you know, and it's because your people because you're spending so much time in the recruiting space, versus the retention space, so you're putting money towards always trying to keep up on that talent need, where you could hire for the right people, and make sure they're sitting in the right seats, and then you can invest in them because they are the legacy or the future of your organization. Well,

Ed Mysogland  9:29  
I think a lot of the business owners that we work with that complain about their employees, and it's the fear of not being able to replace them, you know, as you said, the war on talent, and that, and it's one thing when you're, you know, the 100 million dollar business, it's another thing when you're a million dollar business because the the size matters and and they're able to recruit and they're able to offer better In benefits, and so, so the smaller companies sit near saying, Well, how do I, how do I compete against that? And so and so I guess that's kind of my next question is how do they compete for that war? When they're totally you know, David and Goliath kind of thing?

Amber Fields  10:17  
Yeah, well, they're, like I said before, people are looking for different things inside of it environment. Now, it's not just about the money, people really want flexibility and autonomy, they want to live a more balanced life, we don't call it work life balance, we call it work life integration. Actually, you and ml, because work is a part of who we are, we spend more time, you know, at our jobs, typically than we do with our families. And so they're looking for more of that fulfillment, they're looking for that opportunity. And it doesn't matter if you're at a small company or a large company, you know, they're still looking for the same thing. So it's really understanding, you know, how are we going to operate and the best advice that I can give them it is to have an operating system that this comes out of set the parameters early, and, and often. So what here are the expectations for what how we run our business and how we take care of our people, and give them what they're looking for, while also accountability? We talk a lot about accountability inside our organization, if you set the appropriate expectations, accountability is easy. But I think I think a lot of companies get that expectation part, it's amiss. And and then it's hard to hold them accountable. Because they haven't set that trajectory and have not been clear about what that looks like. Yeah. And,

Ed Mysogland  11:32  
and again, I think they're, especially in the smaller businesses, it is a matter of the tail wagging the dog. And I think there's a lot of employees that know, are aware of this war, and, and use that to their advantage. And again, they may not be the right people for the company. And I acknowledge that. But I think that as the I think the business owner fears, how do I don't want to make this change, for fear of it may lessen my value, or my revenue may go down if I fire this cancer in the office, you know, and and, and it's a balance, and so, oh, man, it's such a challenge. And I don't think that there's one, and maybe I'm wrong, is there? There's no one right way to do this? No, no,

Amber Fields  12:29  
because all your people are different. Yeah, it's one of the things that I love about what we do it for you is because people are looking, everybody's looking for some pathway forward of growth. And every individual or person needs something different and true, you offer such a diverse platform and information of content. And so we're giving them things that they need around conflict resolution, how to give and receive effective feedback, you know, tooling them up with real life, things that are happening, you know, so that they can go at these things and handle them appropriately with more confidence. And also the the relationship building piece of it so that they don't have to go to their managers, they can have conversations with their peers about what's working and what's not working. Well.

Ed Mysogland  13:12  
It's funny, you say that, because I was I was talking to I was talking to a bunch of lawyers a couple of weeks back, and the people that that we serve, you know, it's the org chart, it's not just the person at the top. And, and, and I guess from the business owners that we work with, they care about their people, you know, it's funny, because they care, they care of what happens to them, but yet, they're willing to sacrifice now themselves with their earnings or their their value creation by not making the decisions regarding them, which is such a weird now that I say that I'm like, boy, that is weird why they don't do that.

Amber Fields  13:57  
Yeah, it's a delicate balance. And we talk about people and profits, not people over profits or profits over people, because that's where things can go south really fast. And it's a there's a fine line between making sure that we are making money as an organization, because if we don't do that, we can't thrive. But if we don't have the people, we won't Thrive either. So it's a balance of really understanding the needs of our people, paying attention to them, growing them, investing in them, but also being able to, like I said before, hold them accountable for the pieces of their job that keep the business going. And so you know, it's a heavy lift for those leaders. But we always talk about the mid level manager, we invest a lot of time in that mid level manager or people leaders and emerging leaders and I'm not talking about people who necessarily have somebody directly underneath them but someone that is a leader even of influence. And so investing in them, helping them understand what is the purpose of the organization, what is the vision, where are we going And what are the core values that we operate out of, and helping them make sure that they have a clear understanding of what that is, so that they can coach and teach and create other leaders based on that on those concepts?

Ed Mysogland  15:12  
When, as we move from, from that infrastructure, that supporting infrastructure, and we move into the business owner that is focused on income, creation, and value creation? Yeah, you know, the three components are that businesses personal, and exit strategy is a business strategy and embrace contingent planning. And this is, I believe, this was from an article either Harvard Business Review or from Entrepreneur Magazine. But where what I wanted to know is, I see, I see how business is personal. All right, I see you talking about all the time. And I see that, you know, you need to have contingencies, you know, just baked into your into your business. But I guess I failed to see the exit strategy in, in, in the, in the people. I mean, I alluded to it that I see how, you know, that the people will facilitate you having a better exit, because it's less reliant upon you. But I guess what I wanted to know is, you know, in your experience, I mean, what, what do you see on that number two, on that, that exit, exit strategy is a is, you know, is a strategy in your business.

Amber Fields  16:40  
So what we see is that organizations or leaders of those organizations have to be really intentional about investing in that next level of leader. So an understanding, here's the vision for because what we believe is culture is built based on the visionary of the organization like this, he's casting the vision, HR builds out the foundation for it, but it's that mid level manager and the future of your organization that is really going to implement what culture will look like, down the road. And, and they will long out live once you are out retiring. You know, I look at companies like Buckingham, Brad chambers, he's running for office, but he had to really share with a vision for his organization was and build out an executive team, so that he could move on to what he wanted to do, and spend a lot of time investing in back into and having conversations and understanding this is where I see the organization going. And here's what my thoughts are, now you take my baby and run with it. And we have so many leaders inside of the tree, you community and our ML clients that are doing the same thing. I bring up his name, because he's, you know, with all the politics in the world today, he's someone that a lot of people know in the business world who have made an exit strategy for himself successfully. So he can move on and do what he's passionate about to make a bigger, you know, impact in the community. But we all have, that we don't want to do this forever. But it's really up to us to invest in the future leaders of your organization, and help them be prepared for your exit.

Ed Mysogland  18:12  
So when when you help prepare this next level manager, what does that mean? Because I think a lot of business owners are like, ah, you know, it just means giving them a raise and kind of broadening broadening their, you know, their purview, but but based on you shaking your head, that's not it?

Amber Fields  18:33  
No, what we see is a lot of people get promoted, because they're really good at their jobs then, okay, but they have not been given the proper foundational skills tools to develop the skills to lead people. And so what we do is help them build that foundation that, you know, from an emerging leader perspective, a leader that's moving up and training all the way up to that advanced leader, we're providing them with the tools that they need to, to be a great leader themselves, and to create other great leaders to work through conflict to be an adaptive leader, because every one of your people need something different. And you have to come at them with a different approach. And you need to be agile and versatile to be able to pull, you know, out of your liver, the tools that you need. And so we teach that, and it's ongoing, it doesn't stop with the three month cohorts that we have, we continue to teach them monthly, because the world is evolving and people have needs greater than what we are skilled with today. Well,

Ed Mysogland  19:27  
and and that was kind of Part C of the question was, yeah, how long does it take? I mean, I know most business owners are like, Yeah, all right, I'll send them to a week bootcamp. And that's not

Amber Fields  19:38  
it. Right. It's ongoing. It's ongoing, and it's really understanding the competencies of your leaders. You know, on the MLS side of the house, we work with a lot of organizations to help them build out competency measurement tools, and understanding where your people are, and then building out a performance plan to help them get to where they're going with plugging in the tools that they need the training that they need to get them where they're going. But the biggest and most important thing is your leaders have to have a growth mindset, they've got to be willing to step into that place of being poured into getting hard feedback, you're underperforming in this place, but you're over performing here, here's the gap, and, and we're wanting to invest in you to help you get there, because we have big plans for you. And a lot of leaders today are like, No, I'm good. You know, I love the idea of it. But I'm too busy work in my day job to be able to invest in myself to get me to where I want to go. And so for us, it's really about helping them understand you can't have both. And you will need to have both so that you can grow inside this organization and continue the longevity of the opportunities that are possible for you.

Ed Mysogland  20:49  
Have you seen any studies on this? I know, you know, I know it. There has to be there has to be studies done. So I'm just curious to know, you know, as far as contribution to to value, what have you seen? So,

Amber Fields  21:08  
McKinsey and Company did a study, and they talked about companies become more valuable when they focus I said on profits and people, but companies with great cultures deliver a return to shareholders 60% higher than medium companies, and 200% higher than those in the bottom quartile. So at the end of the day, when you have a better, you know, a good culture, a great culture, you're just going to deliver on higher, you know, financially higher. Yeah. And so that's one that we stand by. Yeah, well,

Ed Mysogland  21:39  
it's funny that you say that, because it I mean, it makes total sense. I just, I find it hard to believe why people don't do this. And it just it's kind of a head scratcher on. And I'm in the same camp. I mean, I'm sitting here thinking, thinking of my own company, I'm like, Well, you know, do we, you know, we're profitable, we do good things do? Do we have that culture that perpetuates that somebody would come in and say, That's a great culture to be in and, and why somebody would want to acquire US? Interesting. So yeah, any, you know, there's a lot of noise that goes on in a company, what's the signal that you find that you got a problem?

Amber Fields  22:29  
Yeah, first and foremost, is high turnover. You know, if you are churning and burning people like crazy, you got to take a pause and look at that, you've also got to be paying attention, we do things called stay conversations. In between our performance review sessions, we're having monthly or bi weekly conversations, to look for things like burnout, lack of work life balance, that communication issues with managers, or leaders or with peers, disengaged employees, you know, things like office gossip, you know, these are all things that are kind of triggers to a toxic and damaging company culture. And so a leader has to get in front of those and have the hard conversation sometimes to really rectify those or get those turned around, so that you don't or if you do have a burnout employee, what does that look like? How can we do? We're an Eos, the Entrepreneurial Operating System company, and how do you do an elevate and delegate so that you can look at the roles of that person to pull back on some of the responsibilities to avoid burnout? Are people taking vacations? Are when they're taking vacations? Are they actually disconnecting? Or is there this unwritten expectation for them to be working while also trying to vacation because you can't really shut it off. I see a lot of that in the workplace today. And I'm also guilty,

Ed Mysogland  23:53  
too. i It's funny, because we were we just came back from, from Nashville. And, you know, in the mornings, before everybody was up, I was I was the guy, you know, triaging emails. So

Amber Fields  24:10  
yeah, I enjoy that we were in Cabo a couple of weeks ago, about a month ago now. And my team was like, You need to take teams off your phone, you need to stop looking at email. And let us just handle it. And I'm telling you what the freedom behind doing that I came back, ready to run, you know, the q4, you know, Sprint, I was like, let's go. I think I looked at email one time on Friday morning to just make sure that I wasn't missing anything going into the weekend. And it was it was great. So I highly encourage that. Nothing, the house isn't going to be on fire. And if it is, they'll let you know.

Ed Mysogland  24:43  
Boy, I hear you. Yeah. So how do you assess your culture? I mean, is there a is there a way that you can like somebody that's listening to this and this is the you know, this is they hear it at the end of every episode that you know, you're Keep your people, you know, pour into your people, and that will make the greatest impact. So, but this is probably your, in fact, I know you're the first person that has ever talked about this. So how, how does a person unfamiliar with any of this, you know, I'm just trying to keep my, keep the boat afloat keep keep revenue coming in. But how do I know? How do I measure where I'm at? Is there an easy way to measure? No, I know you said high turnover. But but, you know, what? If I, what? Where's the red flag? And then how do I rectify it? Yeah,

Amber Fields  25:39  
I think that a good litmus test ad is looking at how much you're spending on recruiting versus retention. I mentioned that a little bit earlier. But if you are keeping an eye on your employees you're investing in, then you're growing them, you'll be spending a whole lot less money on recruiting, recruiting efforts and being able to pour back into them, which then in turn, you know, pours into the bottom line. Another way to measure we've been talking about it a little bit is measuring the performance of your people that will tell you the health of your organization, you know, are they out exceeding goals? Are they excited to come to work? Are they out? You know, Mike Lance, who is the founder of our organization will always say it on the weekends, will your people if they love what they're doing? Will they pick up a true shirt, or an ML shirt over wearing IU or Purdue, you know, what's their willingness to be able to promote how excited they are to be a part of your organization. I think there's a lot of ways to measure this. But I think the most important way is having an operating system and a plan to make sure that you know, this is this is how we do it. And then at the end, this is how we measure it. So making sure that you start always with a talent plan to set yourself up for success and all of those things that I mentioned, fit into that talent plan.

Ed Mysogland  27:00  
So I know one of the questions that is bound to come up to me has to do with EOS. And I know you guys are you guys are participants, you know, years ago it was E Myth and now with with Michael Gerber now it's it's EOS. How, and I taught been trying to get David man to get me someone from the EOS organization on here. But from your experience, I mean, is it is it necessary to have the two together, you know, the work on the culture and and have kind of the company operating system running.

Amber Fields  27:43  
I mean, we are huge fans of Eos Andrew Williams is our implementer Chris Miller is on our team is our integrator. And you know, I didn't work in EOS prior to coming to this organization. And I cannot tell you how it has cleaned up our processes. It keeps us on plan, it keeps us accountable. And it allows us the space to have hard conversations and work through those faster. And so we're huge fans of Eos, we put a lot of our companies and clients on it just so that we can move quicker through the murky waters. You know, there's a lot of things that are happening inside of our organizations all the time. And often without us what I've seen in the past is we get stuck. And what I love about our implementers is they help facilitate us through that getting stuck period. And then you just follow the process. We are all about the process and making sure that we're following it to the plan, getting it done, and saying things like is this the highest and best use of your time? Are these they call them rocks, goals, things that you're working towards? Is this going to help move that rock to success and completion? Or is that going to deter you away? And it keeps you know, we have a visionary. He's very visionary. He has great ideas. And we are all very excited about the ideas that he comes to the table. But sometimes we have to table those exciting ideas because we got to focus on what's right in front of us for this particular quarter. The other thing I love about us is it works in like quarter to quarter and not try to eat the whole elephant you know, all at one time. We're working one quarter at a time. So

Ed Mysogland  29:17  
what advice do you have for companies looking to transform or enhance their culture? Yeah, positively impact the valuation?

Amber Fields  29:30  
Yeah, I love this question. And so the first thing that I would say is know the purpose of your organization. Cast the vision, help your people understand the core values that you operate out of, and teach them to every single leader inside of your organization. Create that talent plan. If you don't have one today, it is what we that's what we do. We help organizations build out those talent plans that help you get to revenue faster and better. You You want to align your PVC we call a PVC purpose, vision and values, hire the right people for the right seats, and then help them excel in their roles, whether they're looking for lateral moves or expanding in the seat that they're in, give them the tools. People don't leave organizations where they feel valued and bring value. And your people are your most valuable asset, whether you are looking to sell or not. And you need it to be as healthy as possible for the opportunity to

Ed Mysogland  30:25  
present. So does the true you work, regardless of the type of business, whether it's a, you know, remote workforce are, you know, I've got, you know, boots on the ground? Or, you know, we're fragmented across countries and continents. Does it still work? Yeah,

Amber Fields  30:46  
absolutely. We have companies that are located right here in Indianapolis, where we're chatting from today. But you know, COVID did this, where we, we got to create the platforms that we have, we got to take them simulcast virtual so that we could have a larger reach. And so we have several remote companies, we've actually created content opportunities, we used to do everything on Tuesday mornings, from eight until 10, we'll for our West Coast friends, that's super early. And so we've created content on Thursdays that are all virtual for any employee at 11am that they can tune into. And we take a deep dive into some of the issues and things all of our content is created from the requests of our member companies. And so and it's an exclusive group of people who believe that there people are their number one competitive advantage. And so they're learning from each other, but they're also learning tools from a vetted thought partner, and those are also all around the country as well. So

Ed Mysogland  31:41  
well, let's move on to Drew you. So how does warm you work? I mean, yeah, I mean, everybody's, everybody's like, well, you know, it's just a it's a community. And it's Park, I know, enough people in it to know that it's far more than just a little community. So, so how does it work? And, you know, if, if I was coming, coming to you, how would I be on boarded and when, and when should I expect, you know, the miraculous change here in my practice?

Amber Fields  32:13  
I love that. So we are an exclusive group of, of member companies, organizations that really focus on culture. And they are, there's a vetting process, because we want to make sure that as an organization, you've got a growth mindset, because for true you to work for you, you've got to already set the context and have the expectations of a growth mindset. You've got to support your people and being a willing to have them come to to you and invest in their events and giving them the space in their calendars to be able to invest in themselves. It's a two hour per quarter. For each peer group, we focus on executives, we focus on HR leaders, and definitely that mid level manager and Emerging Leader. And then And then the last part is accountability, you got to be willing to hold them accountable to their learning. And whether it's true you or wherever they go, to be poured into and to learn, you've got to be asking the questions during those stay conversations and performance reviews. What are you doing to grow yourself? And when you go to these things, what are you walking away with and applying. So you know, I can't really give you and it's really the timeframe is based on the organization and how quickly they're willing to get their people to start coming, and how often they attend the things. I think that there's a lot of places for mid level managers. There's a lot of places for executives and HR leaders to go to get poured into. But I think the thing that makes our community so different is that we spend a lot of time investing in that mid level manager in the future of these organizations to help get them ready for what's to come. And that makes us different. They get to learn from their peers, people in different companies, but similar seats, they're learning from vetted thought partners, gaining additional tools and resources. And so the companies that pour in to their people the most are the ones that get the highest success the fastest.

Ed Mysogland  34:01  
I'm your turn in the hot seat. Now I have a pretty good idea what you're going to how you're going to answer this. But nevertheless, I'm still going to ask it. So if you had one piece of advice that you would give our listeners that would have the most immediate impact on their business. And it's saleability. What would it be? Yeah.

Amber Fields  34:20  
When you grow your people, you grow your culture, and so help people become the best versions of themselves. And they will absolutely do the very best work for you.

Ed Mysogland  34:28  
What's best what we find you

Amber Fields  34:31  
on LinkedIn, Amber fields, that's

Ed Mysogland  34:33  
easy enough. Well, yeah, Amber, I can tell you, I and I may have already told you that, you know, out of order, I think we're well over 100 episodes and the majority of people that I asked that question, always say it's the people, it's the people and getting and getting the business owner out of out of being the business. And so yeah, so I'm so grateful that You took the time this morning to come hang out. Yeah. And, and I look forward to it to see what, who and what I can share with true. So is there any anything that you want me to just point him to your website?

Amber Fields  35:15  
Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure you can com. Yep. And if they want to have a conversation about what that can look like to make a difference for their organizations, we would love to chat. This is, you know, we're on mission for helping organizations become the best versions of themselves as well. And we're doing that through one person at a time. And so you know, and I'm fascinated that with people in business, I love to hear their stories, why they do what they do, and I'm excited to be on mission.

Ed Mysogland  35:40  
Glad you said that. Because I think that probably is one of your superpowers is is that you are approachable, you are transparent and you are giving of your time regardless of the universe as a funny way of rewarding people that do things like that. And so, so, I have to endorse that. Yeah, you are, you are available and you are willing to share what you know, and awesome. Well, Amber, thanks again for coming and hanging out and I look forward to seeing you soon. Yeah,

Amber Fields  36:11  
anytime.